Issues of a Domestic Nature (READ WARNING ON PAGE 1 BEFORE POSTING)

AZ_

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How did Trump create the crisist? Did he tell everyone it was ok to come to the US illegally? Or was that the Democrats and the sanctuary cities? Hard to blame Trump for more people trying to come to the US.
He ended humanitarian aid to these countries, which created a higher demand of migrants willing to make the journey to this country.

He changed the policy so as to inflict the most damage on migrants entering this country legally.

He closed down the legal ports of entry, he's held kids in concentration camps.

He's forced women to drink out of toilets, as we learned previously:



He abandoned bi-partisan legislation aimed at stopping this crisis, because it didn't do enough damage to legal immigration.


This is his legacy. We need to start owning it as the truth.
 

cavsfan1985

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He ended humanitarian aid to these countries, which created a higher demand of migrants willing to make the journey to this country.

He changed the policy so as to inflict the most damage on migrants entering this country legally.

He closed down the legal ports of entry, he's held kids in concentration camps.

He's forced women to drink out of toilets, as we learned previously:



He abandoned bi-partisan legislation aimed at stopping this crisis, because it didn't do enough damage to legal immigration.


This is his legacy. We need to start owning it as the truth.
If people stopped coming here illegally there would be no issue. You don’t think people on the left talking about abolishing ICE, and sanctuary city’s have not helped make the problem worse? All of this is avoidable is people stopped trying to come here illegally.

We need reform on immegration. While Trump plan is not 100% what I agree with, it’s more than the Democrats have offed up. I am sorry a plan of disregarding the law, and allowing anyone to come here and receive our tax $s is not a viable plan.
 

AZ_

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If people stopped coming here illegally there would be no issue. You don’t think people on the left talking about abolishing ICE, and sanctuary city’s have not helped make the problem worse? All of this is avoidable is people stopped trying to come here illegally.

We need reform on immegration. While Trump plan is not 100% what I agree with, it’s more than the Democrats have offed up. I am sorry a plan of disregarding the law, and allowing anyone to come here and receive our tax $s is not a viable plan.
You’re just repeating right wing talking points and don’t appear to be acknowledging my responses.

Nothing to be gained here.

Trump closed down the legal ports of entry, preventing the folks who wish to seek asylum from doing so legally. This isn’t even about “illegal” immigration any longer.

As of this morning, you claimed that democrats had no plan. It doesn’t appear you’ve done any research to know if that’s actually the case, and you ignored the fact that Trump has killed more than one bi partisan immigration bill thus far.


If there won’t be any response to what I’m saying, in favor of a reiteration of the rights talking points, there’s really no need to continue this discussion.
 

cavsfan1985

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You’re just repeating right wing talking points and don’t appear to be acknowledging my responses.

Nothing to be gained here.

Trump closed down the legal ports of entry, preventing the folks who wish to seek asylum from doing so legally. This isn’t even about “illegal” immigration any longer.

As of this morning, you claimed that democrats had no plan. It doesn’t appear you’ve done any research to know if that’s actually the case, and you ignored the fact that Trump has killed more than one bi partisan immigration bill thus far.


If there won’t be any response to what I’m saying, in favor of a reiteration of the rights talking points, there’s really no need to continue this discussion.
I can respect that. But I still have not heard anyone tell me why it’s ok for cities to ignore federal law, and protect those here illegally. I 100% support legal immigration, and even could be convinced to give those who are here illegal to a legal status. But what I don’t get is attacking Trump who is trying to stop it.
 

AZ_

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I can respect that. But I still have not heard anyone tell me why it’s ok for cities to ignore federal law, and protect those here illegally. I 100% support legal immigration, and even could be convinced to give those who are here illegal to a legal status. But what I don’t get is attacking Trump who is trying to stop it.
I haven’t heard you tell me anything about Trump’s plan, how it could possibly work or what it is.

Or if there even is one.

Trump isn’t trying to stop anything, and I laid out numerous policy changes which reflect that he’s exacerbating it for political gain, which was ignored.
 

AZ_

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Another Democratic plan to stop this lunatic inspired crisis:

Booker's plan would "virtually eliminate immigration detention," by shutting down "inhumane" border facilities and introducing civil detention standards that "call for detention as a last resort." Booker would also direct the Department of Homeland Security to phase out its contracts with private prison facilities over a three-year period.

The plan, which promises to broadly undo the Trump administration's "anti-immigrant policies," also calls for expanding access to legal counsel for immigrants, restoring and expanding protections for "as many Dreamers as possible" and the allocation of foreign aid to address the root cause of migration.

"As president, Cory will fight for legislation in Congress to reform our broken immigration system in a comprehensive way," the news release stated, "but he won't wait to act to end the system of mass detention."
 

cavsfan1985

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Another Democratic plan to stop this lunatic inspired crisis:

Booker's plan would "virtually eliminate immigration detention," by shutting down "inhumane" border facilities and introducing civil detention standards that "call for detention as a last resort." Booker would also direct the Department of Homeland Security to phase out its contracts with private prison facilities over a three-year period.

The plan, which promises to broadly undo the Trump administration's "anti-immigrant policies," also calls for expanding access to legal counsel for immigrants, restoring and expanding protections for "as many Dreamers as possible" and the allocation of foreign aid to address the root cause of migration.

"As president, Cory will fight for legislation in Congress to reform our broken immigration system in a comprehensive way," the news release stated, "but he won't wait to act to end the system of mass detention."
Sounds like a lot of tax dollars going to support those who come here illegally.

Also Trump is not anti immigration he is anti “illegal” immigration.

I do support the dreamers, but it is a slippery slope as we are saying to those who want to come here illegally, it’s ok to bring kids as we will let them stay.
 

AZ_

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Sounds like a lot of tax dollars going to support those who come here illegally.

Also Trump is not anti immigration he is anti “illegal” immigration.

I do support the dreamers, but it is a slippery slope as we are saying to those who want to come here illegally, it’s ok to bring kids as we will let them stay.
First of all, Trump is anti all immigration. He's collapsed multiple bi-partisan immigration bills because they weren't tough enough on legal immigration. He's attempting to completely transform asylum, which is legal immigration.

Don't just repeat the talking points to me, because they are not factual. Trump is not just anti "illegal" immigration, and his entire presidency and political aims are evidence of that.


Moving on:

There is no alternative to spending tax dollars to fix the undocumented immigrants already here.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to your face.

There is NO plan for those people. None. Trump doesn't have one, the right doesn't have one.


So you can either deal with the reality, or we can keep having the same fight for generations with no solution.
 

cavsfan1985

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First of all, Trump is anti all immigration. He's collapsed multiple bi-partisan immigration bills because they weren't tough enough on legal immigration. He's attempting to completely transform asylum, which is legal immigration.

Don't just repeat the talking points to me, because they are not factual. Trump is not just anti "illegal" immigration, and his entire presidency and political aims are evidence of that.


Moving on:

There is no alternative to spending tax dollars to fix the undocumented immigrants already here.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to your face.

There is NO plan for those people. None. Trump doesn't have one, the right doesn't have one.


So you can either deal with the reality, or we can keep having the same fight for generations with no solution.
I think we just have different views on it. I do agree we need to do something for those who are here now. My comment was more it is a slippery slope because it opens the door and idea that if more "illegal" immigrants do you come here, we will do the same in the future, so in a sense we make it ok to come here illegally.

I also not saying Trumps plan is perfect, I do like certain parts of it, but do agree it is a little restrictive in certain areas. I do agree that immigration should be more merit based vs just having a relative living in the US. I also do not think it is right that states/cities are using tax payers $'s to support illegal immigration and protect those who are here illegally. The worst part is they are protecting criminals. I fail to see the logic in protecting someone here illegally who breaks other laws.
 

AZ_

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I think we just have different views on it. I do agree we need to do something for those who are here now. My comment was more it is a slippery slope because it opens the door and idea that if more "illegal" immigrants do you come here, we will do the same in the future, so in a sense we make it ok to come here illegally.
Slippery slope is a logical fallacy.

There is no alternative plan. You haven't discussed one, and it doesn't exist on the right.

The left wants to fix the problem, the right has no plan for the problem. So I guess this is an impasse, but its bred out of the fact that the right can only complain about undocumented immigrants.


I also not saying Trumps plan is perfect, I do like certain parts of it, but do agree it is a little restrictive in certain areas. I do agree that immigration should be more merit based vs just having a relative living in the US. I also do not think it is right that states/cities are using tax payers $'s to support illegal immigration and protect those who are here illegally. The worst part is they are protecting criminals. I fail to see the logic in protecting someone here illegally who breaks other laws.
What plan?

Just be as cruel and inhumane as possible in the hopes it deters migrants seeking to enter this country legally?

Guess what, it didn't work. Now what?

The right won't provide a worthwhile plan to stop spending tax payer dollars on undocumented immigrants who are here, yet has no way to rid themselves of the undocumented immigrants that are here.
 

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How did Trump create the crisist? Did he tell everyone it was ok to come to the US illegally? Or was that the Democrats and the sanctuary cities? Hard to blame Trump for more people trying to come to the US.
The crisis isn't the people coming, surges of migrants & refugees is not a new concept to America.

The crisis is how we are treating them. Piling up people in camps and separating families due to a cruel and impractical zero tolerance policy.

You're using a right-wing talking point to downplay what it happening. I've seen it in a few places lately:

-"But wait, didn't the left say it wasn't a crisis?" We said that there isn't a national emergency caused by immigrants, which remains absolutely true.
 

cavsfan1985

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The crisis isn't the people coming, surges of migrants & refugees is not a new concept to America.

The crisis is how we are treating them. Piling up people in camps and separating families due to a cruel and impractical zero tolerance policy.

You're using a right-wing talking point to downplay what it happening. I've seen it in a few places lately:

-"But wait, didn't the left say it wasn't a crisis?" We said that there isn't a national emergency caused by immigrants, which remains absolutely true.
I am not got to argue on how we are treating them. I definitely do not agree with how we have handled all of it. The part that frustrates me is that all of this should have been a priority on both sides to fix. It is a hard topic to find a solution to. While I agree those that are in custody deserve better from a human/moral level. But on the flip side, none of them would be in this situation if they did not come here illegally. It is a tough balancing act from being strict enough to discourage coming here illegally and going to an extreme level of punishment.
 

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I am not got to argue on how we are treating them. I definitely do not agree with how we have handled all of it. The part that frustrates me is that all of this should have been a priority on both sides to fix. It is a hard topic to find a solution to. While I agree those that are in custody deserve better from a human/moral level. But on the flip side, none of them would be in this situation if they did not come here illegally. It is a tough balancing act from being strict enough to discourage coming here illegally and going to an extreme level of punishment.

If he didn't want them to come, what was the point of cutting the aid to the three countries that the majority of these people are coming from. This is what people are saying this administration while not the reason that the migrants are making the trek to enter the country, they don't have any desire to deal with the root cause of the problem so we get people that are then put in abhorrent conditions.

What the best way to not have people enter our country in search of a better , make it more so people are not being put in a life or death situation in their home countries. It seems like people don't want to acknowledge that these countries are riddled with crime and poverty and while it may not directly be the US responsibility to deal with these problems, if they constantly want to complain about the results of the factors then do something about the root cause.
 

Cavatt

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I am not got to argue on how we are treating them. I definitely do not agree with how we have handled all of it. The part that frustrates me is that all of this should have been a priority on both sides to fix. It is a hard topic to find a solution to. While I agree those that are in custody deserve better from a human/moral level. But on the flip side, none of them would be in this situation if they did not come here illegally. It is a tough balancing act from being strict enough to discourage coming here illegally and going to an extreme level of punishment.
You are ignoring the fact that our political forays into these countries is why they are so destabilized. It's like being frustrated with the refugees of the Iraq war. We have a responsibility because we overturned elected governments in Honduras and El Salvador among others. Nicaragua on and on.

You are ignoring the bipartisan bills that continue to pile up in the Senate as McConnell ignores any legislation.

You are ignoring that Trump has reduced legal immigration.

You are ignoring that asylum seeking is legal.

You are ignoring that 600,000 people from Canada are here illegally. There are no white people in these camps. This is selective targetting of a specific kind of undocumented person, not just undocumented people.

You are ignoring while complaining about paying for these people, that it is more expensive to separate families. Housing people separately costs 3-4 times as much.

After you ignore all those points, you can start to persuade yourself that they are just doing their jobs and if you come here it is your fault.

At some point you have to realize that we are America and we aren't supposed to act like like this. There is a continuum where this treatment gets worse to the point we just shoot anyone who approaches our boarder "as a deterrent". They deserve it right? because they aren't following the law. We can execute people speeding on the highway too, but sensible people recognize this as excessive.
 

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