James Wiseman Scouting: Discuss

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Nathan S

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Wiseman is a divisive prospect, but has frequented the top-3 of draft boards all year so probably deserves his own discussion thread. Is he more Embiid, more Ayton, or more Whiteside?

 

cabs

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Not a player I would draft in the top 5
 
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Wiseman is a divisive prospect, but has frequented the top-3 of draft boards all year so probably deserves his own discussion thread. Is he more Embiid, more Ayton, or more Whiteside?

If I'm the Cavs I'm all over this guy, especially with Drummond on a one-year deal and not knowing if he's a guy we can win with long term.

He has the size of a center but moves like a small forward and can hit the 15-footer. His upside is huge. He's only 19. This column describes him as a bigger Chris Bosh.

 
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Wiseman is a divisive prospect, but has frequented the top-3 of draft boards all year so probably deserves his own discussion thread. Is he more Embiid, more Ayton, or more Whiteside?

This site has a really detailed report on Wiseman. The kid has a huge upside and no negatives that can't be overcome through coaching, experience, and some strength training.


I'd be tremendously excited if we can land this guy. He has a 9'3" standing reach and "runs like a deer". We need a rim defender in the worst way. He can play the uptempo game that is today's NBA.
 

Cavatt

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He has the tools I think. He has some touch. He has the athleticism and size. I bet he will be able to shoot.

Why do you need him though? His highlights around the rim look a lot like Anthony Bennett. Just dunking on nobodies who aren't contesting much.

I probably like how he fights for rebounding more than anything. He is really raw. To me, he seems like young Dwight without the defensive chops.

I am not excited about him, but if we were sitting there at 3, I think you need to take him. Ball and maybe Edwards have more talent, but after that there isn't someone with as good of a body/upside as Wiseman I think.

He will likely not be your best player, but it would make some sense to get him to pair with the guards. Drummond immediately becomes a guy you want to get rid of. That is going to be impossible IMO. We will have to just let his deal expire. No one wants Drummond for 28M next year. We are going to have an easier time trading Love, and that is an Improbability.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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This site has a really detailed report on Wiseman. The kid has a huge upside and no negatives that can't be overcome through coaching, experience, and some strength training.
That clip is literally the only thing I've ever seen of him, so take this with a huge grain of salt....

The one negative I saw that likely cannot be fixed by coaching and strength training is his lateral footspeed on defense. He has that ridiculously long-legged build that makes him eat up ground quickly when running, but also makes it awfully tough to move your feet quickly. So to me, he may be a guy that can't guard the perimeter, and may be particularly vulnerable to the pick and roll.

Assuming his offensive game comes around, that likely isn't enough to keep him from being a plus at the 5. But if his offense doesn't improve significantly, I don't think shot-blocking alone will be enough defensively to make him an All-Star caliber player.
 
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Wow, this 7'1" guy might not be able to guard the perimeter. I guess if you're a 7-footer who can't guard the perimeter there's no place for you in today's NBA even if you can score, rebound, and play great D around the rim.

Ball and Edwards might be better but are we really going to draft another guard?

Drummond will likely be gone after this year and Thompson may be gone before this season starts. We could be fresh out of 5’s a year from now. We have Love and Nance at PF. We have Nance, Cedi, and Windler at SF and Porter could play there too when we go small.

Wiseman would be our best option given who we have locked in for the next few years and what we need, which is rim protection.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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Wow, this 7'1" guy might not be able to guard the perimeter. I guess if you're a 7-footer who can't guard the perimeter there's no place for you in today's NBA even if you can score, rebound, and play great D around the rim.
It's not a case of there being "no place for him" in today's NBA. If there's a place for Dewayne Dedmon, there's a place for the poor version of Wiseman.

Anyone in the NBA can "score". And if you're 7'1", that scoring can come from lobs and dunks. That's nothing special. Wiseman's problem on offense is that he's a poor shooter -- not just from three --, and is not a good passer. So if he's not in transition, and not getting easy dunks at the rim...what exactly does he offer on offense? I'm not saying he can't develop those skills -- I'm just saying that he doesn't show them right now, so that's a question mark.

Yes, he can defend the rim and rebound, but that's not enough -- without the offensive improvement -- to be anything more than an average center in the NBA, and you'd hope for more than that from a top 3 pick. Defensively, you can live with a center not being able to stay with smaller guys on the perimeter. The problem is his pick and roll defense. It's a critical, staple play in the NBA, and for a guy who currently projects as a better defensive than offensive player, he doesn't look to me - at least from that clip -- like he can defend it even in college.

I'm not saying he can't be a very good NBA player. I'm saying there are legitimate questions about his play, and that if he doesn't improve them, he'll be average at best. And maybe worse.

ETA: And to reiterate, that is based solely off that video above, and then looking at his stats. The single biggest concern I had was that horrendous PR defense, because good teams will force off the court centers who are that bad at defending it. Now if that video wasn't a fair representation of his PNR defense, fine. Otherwise, it's some combination of his footwork, or his lateral footspeed. The former can sometimes be improved. The latter really can't.
 
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Nathan S

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If you can't see the pros and the cons with Wiseman, you may be blind. No one in this draft has more obvious strengths and weaknesses.
 

Derek

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Hmm I dont see Ayton at all at this point looking at the tape. He looks like DH more than anything a guy who has a long ways to go offensively and no jumper but projects to be an elite rim runner/rim protector and lob threat from day 1. 9'4" sr and 7'6"+ ws on an athletic frame is a lock not to bust.
I would prefer Okongwu as far as high floor I think his iq is pretty solid on both sides of the ball and is an exceptional athlete that proved he can defend not only in the paint but really any position with his mobility.
The other thing that intrigues me with Okongwu is his shooting stroke looks like he may become a solid mid range shooter in a couple seasons to add to his touch around the basket.
Obi has the best offensive arsenol right now but his age and the lack of defense make it harder to buy into in the top 5 but maybe at 6
You know Ayton had nearly an identical wingspan and standing reach, right? Also with an athletic frame?

Unless you think he's a Rudy Gobert level rim protector, I just don't see it. I see the rim running, and I think he'll be a solid rim protector in time, but I'm just not sure how valuable that is.
 

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He has a reputation for a poor motor. I think it was Kevin O'connor on Chad Ford's big Board podcast that said he was alarmed by Wiseman's work out videos. He was just working on stuff he was already ok at, and not showing anything he didn't show in his 3 games.
 

Ozone

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You know Ayton had nearly an identical wingspan and standing reach, right? Also with an athletic frame?

Unless you think he's a Rudy Gobert level rim protector, I just don't see it. I see the rim running, and I think he'll be a solid rim protector in time, but I'm just not sure how valuable that is.
yep I meant he is nowhere near as good offensively as Ayton was at the college level. Wiseman has to be looked at as a rim protector and rim runner because right now that is his floor. if he projects to develop significantly offensively it would be a smart long term move to consider him in the top 5. I think he could be a Gobert level defender , but probably wishful thinking early on. Got to have a higher IQ to be that good even with the length and hops. Like I mentioned, I am higher on Okongwu as a 5 that has special skills on both sides of the ball and despite not being a seven foot tall beast has a 40" vert or close to it blocks everything reading plays ahead of time and has shown some decent form as a shooter to beleive he can become a solid one , well alot more than TT for example. I think Okongwu with a private workout if they ever get to do any would blow this front office away. Sorry I dont have the link but I read a couple months ago his teammates at USC claim big O can hit jumpers from all over the court and beyond the break. Just never did it in college playing the interior so much.I bet he can play the 4 in the league
 

Cavatt

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yep I meant he is nowhere near as good offensively as Ayton was at the college level. Wiseman has to be looked at as a rim protector and rim runner because right now that is his floor. if he projects to develop significantly offensively it would be a smart long term move to consider him in the top 5. I think he could be a Gobert level defender , but probably wishful thinking early on. Got to have a higher IQ to be that good even with the length and hops. Like I mentioned, I am higher on Okongwu as a 5 that has special skills on both sides of the ball and despite not being a seven foot tall beast has a 40" vert or close to it blocks everything reading plays ahead of time and has shown some decent form as a shooter to beleive he can become a solid one , well alot more than TT for example. I think Okongwu with a private workout if they ever get to do any would blow this front office away. Sorry I dont have the link but I read a couple months ago his teammates at USC claim big O can hit jumpers from all over the court and beyond the break. Just never did it in college playing the interior so much.I bet he can play the 4 in the league
Yep. I would definitely take Okongwu first. Better floor on both sides of the ball most likely. May have a higher defensive ceiling too because of his better feet and ability to defend in space. Body looks plenty strong to play the 5, so only the perimeter shooting is keeping him from the 4 IMO.

Wiseman looks a lot like Dwight Howard, but Dwight was already a better defender. I consider Dwight as the better prospect than Wiseman. Dwight went #1. Would you take Dwight no 1 today? I am not sure I would, but I might in a weak draft like this.

Very tough call, and he has so little tape to go on.

Larry has a few more years in him, I expect him to be he starting 4 at some point with the way his shot has come along. I think in a weak draft drafting for fit makes more sense. Does Okongwu or Wiseman fit better with Larry?
 
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