James Wiseman Scouting: Discuss

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I'mWithDan

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I'll go on record and say I'm not sure Wiseman's motor critiques are all that fair.

What "non motor" player puts up exceptional OREB + BLK + STL stats?

Can anyone think of someone who excelled in those categories but lacked a motor?

I think there is a difference between someone who lacks a motor and someone who loses focus from time to time.

Those are two different things to me and I think the latter is something a good organization can easily coach out of a player.

To me, he's a slam dunk #1 for the Warriors........the culture, the personnel around him, he would be awesome there IMO.

It's a bit more complicated for teams' like the Cavs......who lack clarity in coaching and roster personnel. I would be afraid that a pairing with a poor organization or merely an organization without a clear direction would be bad for a player like Wiseman.
 

Derek

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I'll go on record and say I'm not sure Wiseman's motor critiques are all that fair.

What "non motor" player puts up exceptional OREB + BLK + STL stats?

Can anyone think of someone who excelled in those categories but lacked a motor?

I think there is a difference between someone who lacks a motor and someone who loses focus from time to time.

Those are two different things to me and I think the latter is something a good organization can easily coach out of a player.

To me, he's a slam dunk #1 for the Warriors........the culture, the personnel around him, he would be awesome there IMO.

It's a bit more complicated for teams' like the Cavs......who lack clarity in coaching and roster personnel. I would be afraid that a pairing with a poor organization or merely an organization without a clear direction would be bad for a player like Wiseman.
Since we have no real college sample to point to, I'm not sure how we can point to stats at all.

I don't believe it takes much of a motor at all to put up exceptional OREB + BLK + STL stats in HS/AAU when you have exceptional physical tools.
 

Cavatt

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Since we have no real college sample to point to, I'm not sure how we can point to stats at all.

I don't believe it takes much of a motor at all to put up exceptional OREB + BLK + STL stats in HS/AAU when you have exceptional physical tools.
Yeah he played one game against good competition. Otherwise we have never seen him play anyone close to NBA caliber.
 

I'mWithDan

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Since we have no real college sample to point to, I'm not sure how we can point to stats at all.

I don't believe it takes much of a motor at all to put up exceptional OREB + BLK + STL stats in HS/AAU when you have exceptional physical tools.
Effort is easy to quantify though, even in limited tape....set numbers aside....

Does he crash the offensive glass?
Does he close out on shooters?
Does he hedge on screens?
Does he run the floor hard?
Does he challenge shots?
Does he run after loose balls?

You don't need stats to asses effort, you just need a reasonable amount of game tape, which he has IMO. He played EYBL, elite AAU games, etc. To me, it isn't a competition issue......there's plenty of tape of him going against current or future NBA players. I'm just pushing back on the assessment that he lacks motor. I think focus and motor are two different things. A lack of motor, to me, means you are not capable or unwilling. A lack of focus means you are capable, but need the right mix of teammates, coaches and support staff. I think Wiseman is the latter.
 

I'mWithDan

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Yeah he played one game against good competition. Otherwise we have never seen him play anyone close to NBA caliber.
EYBL, Peach Jam, SSC, All-Star circuits........ There's extensive footage of him playing against elite players.

He was dominate during the McAA week. I'm not sure how someone can make a statement that we have never seen him play anyone close to NBA caliber.

I'm not the biggest Wiseman fan, I just think the motor argument for him specifically is a mischaracterization. I'm far more concerned about his potential to stay on the floor late, as a result of shooting concerns, than I am of him being someone who is not going to give effort.
 

DeeThree

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I'm liking him more and more as each day passes. He reminds me of Whiteside with a shot.
 

Derek

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Effort is easy to quantify though, even in limited tape....set numbers aside....

Does he crash the offensive glass?
Does he close out on shooters?
Does he hedge on screens?
Does he run the floor hard?
Does he challenge shots?
Does he run after loose balls?

You don't need stats to asses effort, you just need a reasonable amount of game tape, which he has IMO. He played EYBL, elite AAU games, etc. To me, it isn't a competition issue......there's plenty of tape of him going against current or future NBA players. I'm just pushing back on the assessment that he lacks motor. I think focus and motor are two different things. A lack of motor, to me, means you are not capable or unwilling. A lack of focus means you are capable, but need the right mix of teammates, coaches and support staff. I think Wiseman is the latter.
I never said he lacked a motor. I was simply addressing your question.

"What "non motor" player puts up exceptional OREB + BLK + STL stats?"
 
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cabs

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I think I would rather Okongwu than Wiseman but given we have Drummond who is still not that old I would favour a wing
 

CalBuckeyeRob

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Big guys like Wiseman are always in need of development. They are not going to see enough big guys in high school to be forced to develop that part of their game. But the Cavs made a mistake passing on Drummond when he came out of college and they shouldn't make that same mistake here.
 

bigfoot5415

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He or Toppin are the pick. Both likely come in behind one of our bigs and develop a year or two.

If the Warriors pick in front of us, Wiseman will be off the board.
 

Ozone

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Just say no to big men

especially one who isn’t super elite.
both Wiseman and Okongwu have really nice upsides on both sides of the ball, neither are AD level player off the starting line but Okongwu is far better right now defensively as a higher iq player than Wiseman or Obi and it shows with his high anticpation rate defensively and matches or exceeds both of them athletically.
Okongwu is only 19 and despite lacking a proven J the form is good at the line and it's not like WIseman has one and Obi is more or a set shooter than an outside threat right now and is already 22.
I take Okongwu if having choice of the 3 and think his upside and high floor are more than acceptable value given the only other 5 on the roster will soon be LNJ who should be at the 4 but would be interchangeable with Okongwu who can also play both positions defensively.
I see O as an elite play finisher and shot blocker at minimum who can defend many types of players/positions and with improved passing , handle and shot reps has potential as an all nba 2nd or 3rd team level player long term.

Obi looks to be a below average perimeter defender and less than acceptable outside scorer for a player who doesnt defend well and probably will get pushed inside as a small ball 5 role player that cant defend enough to stay on the court as a starter until he becomes a better floor stretching 4, but his elite vertical and aggressive nature in the paint will carve him a role as a bench scorer big.

Wiseman projects to me as a high level rim protector / rim runner with a developing game offensively but overall a project defensively but its all mental not any type of physical limitation. Kid has excellent measureables decent athleticm a developing bbiq that is worth the pick if they buy him putting in the work to get past where he is now which is too raw to be worth the pick over Okongwu and probably not over Obi if the think Obi can be a better outside threat and it doesnt bother them he is 22 already.
 

Cavatt

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EYBL, Peach Jam, SSC, All-Star circuits........ There's extensive footage of him playing against elite players.

He was dominate during the McAA week. I'm not sure how someone can make a statement that we have never seen him play anyone close to NBA caliber.

I'm not the biggest Wiseman fan, I just think the motor argument for him specifically is a mischaracterization. I'm far more concerned about his potential to stay on the floor late, as a result of shooting concerns, than I am of him being someone who is not going to give effort.
Fair enough. Does he fit the NBA anymore?
 

Goldin Brown

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I know you're not supposed to draft centers high in the draft anymore, but I'd be really happy to add Wiseman to the franchise. Seems like a solid guy with a lot of positive attributes and a lot of room to grow. I've listened to him talk a little bit and he comes off as very bright and intelligent, seems to understand his strengths and weaknesses and what he needs to work on. The guy he compares his game to the most is David Robinson, said he studies his game. The players I heard him mention he models his game after were Robinson, Hakeem, AD and Giannis. A lot of these bigs come into the league saying they model their game after KD's, this guy at least has an understanding of how he can be successful in the league.
 

Man Called X

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I know you're not supposed to draft centers high in the draft anymore, but I'd be really happy to add Wiseman to the franchise. Seems like a solid guy with a lot of positive attributes and a lot of room to grow. I've listened to him talk a little bit and he comes off as very bright and intelligent, seems to understand his strengths and weaknesses and what he needs to work on. The guy he compares his game to the most is David Robinson, said he studies his game. The players I heard him mention he models his game after were Robinson, Hakeem, AD and Giannis. A lot of these bigs come into the league saying they model their game after KD's, this guy at least has an understanding of how he can be successful in the league.
As much as I want a center, I just don't know if a guy modeling his game after late 80s/early 90s post oriented centers is the way to go. And this is coming from a guy who's favorite players were the Dream and the Admiral.
 

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