James Wiseman Scouting: Discuss

[Derek]

As much as I want a center, I just don't know if a guy modeling his game after late 80s/early 90s post oriented centers is the way to go. And this is coming from a guy who's favorite players were the Dream and the Admiral.

I think DeAndre Ayton is a good example of the concern with drafting a center that isn't either an all-world defender or a dynamic perimeter threat.

He's averaged 17-11 with good efficiency in his first two seasons, but is anybody really excited about his future? I fear that might be Wiseman's path. Wouldn't shock me to see him be 20-10 with passable defense fairly early in his career, but I'm not sure how valuable that actually is in today's NBA.

 

[cabs]

I think DeAndre Ayton is a good example of the concern with drafting a center that isn't either an all-world defender or a dynamic perimeter threat.

He's averaged 17-11 with good efficiency in his first two seasons, but is anybody really excited about his future? I fear that might be Wiseman's path. Wouldn't shock me to see him be 20-10 with passable defense fairly early in his career, but I'm not sure how valuable that actually is in today's NBA.

I am excited for his future purely for my dynasty league, he was a huge steal for me (My strategy of picking players from fast paced teams worked really well until the season was canned too)

 

[Nathan S]

I think DeAndre Ayton is a good example of the concern with drafting a center that isn't either an all-world defender or a dynamic perimeter threat.

He's averaged 17-11 with good efficiency in his first two seasons, but is anybody really excited about his future? I fear that might be Wiseman's path. Wouldn't shock me to see him be 20-10 with passable defense fairly early in his career, but I'm not sure how valuable that actually is in today's NBA.

A lot seems to hinge on whether Wiseman is a good shot blocker or an elite shot blocker. Whatever team drafts him is going to have to tailor its defensive gameplan to his skills, because like Ayton he's pretty slow and clumsy in space. That could go really well or really poorly depending on how good he is in the rim-protector role. I tend to think he's at least a little bit better than Ayton in that area, but I'm not sure how much better.

 

[CleveRocks]

I am Ok with Wiseman. But I think we should give Obi a good look. I am not for drafting another guard. SF, PF center is where I think we are, and we should look for the best value we can get, even if that means trading down. I think if we are learning anything from our recent draft process it is athleticism and work ethic = good pick.

 

[cabs]

I would be keen on a trade down. The only scenario that’s realistic would be if we got top 2 and Twolves went down to pick 7 and then traded us that plus their later first for our pick 1 or 2

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I am Ok with Wiseman. But I think we should give Obi a good look. I am not for drafting another guard. SF, PF center is where I think we are, and we should look for the best value we can get, even if that means trading down. I think if we are learning anything from our recent draft process it is athleticism and work ethic = good pick.

I absolutely agree with the part about work ethic. Essential not only for improvement as an individual, but for building a winning team culture.

Having watched almost nothing of most of these guys, I like Okongwu. He looks to have the athleticism and work ethic, and he shot 72% from the line, which suggests he can develop a decent shot. He's also only 19.

Most of all, I just like his defense. In a draft like this, without any blue chippers, Okongwu looks to me the most likely guy who can start on a championship team. Not as a superstar, but as just a really good player. He's bouncy, with good foot speed for a guy that size. He -- like just about everyone else -- needs the right pieces around him, but he is already really good at some things the NBA values.

That being said, to say I haven't scouted these guys extensively is an understatement.

 

[Ozone]

I absolutely agree with the part about work ethic. Essential not only for improvement as an individual, but for building a winning team culture.

Having watched almost nothing of most of these guys, I like Okongwu. He looks to have the athleticism and work ethic, and he shot 72% from the line, which suggests he can develop a decent shot. He's also only 19.

Most of all, I just like his defense. In a draft like this, without any blue chippers, Okongwu looks to me the most likely guy who can start on a championship team. Not as a superstar, but as just a really good player. He's bouncy, with good foot speed for a guy that size. He -- like just about everyone else -- needs the right pieces around him, but he is already really good at some things the NBA values.

That being said, to say I haven't scouted these guys extensively is an understatement.

Big O does have a decent mid range jumper so your ft % assumption is solid.
Never saw it at USC in the role he played. We also didn't get to see him work with a decent PG
where more of his offensive game shined pre college.
His floor as a defender is really second to none with a reasonably high floor offensively, so unless they are looking for a playmaker which he is not at this point on paper due to unreasonable critique of his passing skills, he should be the selection all day long and twice on Sunday.
btw I think a lot of his questionable passing skills had more to do with him making high iq reads , passing the ball to a spot and his raw teammates not seeing the play and cutting as they should have.
Remember he played with the Ball Bros. and won a lot so he has an incredible feel for the game for a young big.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Big O does have a decent mid range jumper so your ft % assumption is solid.
Never saw it at USC in the role he played. We also didn't get to see him work with a decent PG
where more of his offensive game shined pre college.
His floor as a defender is really second to none with a reasonably high floor offensively, so unless they are looking for a playmaker which he is not at this point on paper due to unreasonable critique of his passing skills, he should be the selection all day long and twice on Sunday.
btw I think a lot of his questionable passing skills had more to do with him making high iq reads , passing the ball to a spot and his raw teammates not seeing the play and cutting as they should have.
Remember he played with the Ball Bros. and won a lot so he has an incredible feel for the game for a young big.

I just think poor defensive players kill you when you get to the upper echelons of the NBA. You can put up great numbers and look great as an individual, but you're going to end up costing your team a lot of games.

 

[Cavatt]

I just think poor defensive players kill you when you get to the upper echelons of the NBA. You can put up great numbers and look great as an individual, but you're going to end up costing your team a lot of games.

Agreed. We also can't make the whole team out of them. We need guys with defensive upside badly.

 

[benchplayer]

Half of me feels like they should end the season and have the draft and lottery already. The reason being is because the momentum is gone, and sometimes that's what causes an 8th seed team to upset a 1st seed team.

 

[Lee]

As much as I want a center, I just don't know if a guy modeling his game after late 80s/early 90s post oriented centers is the way to go. And this is coming from a guy who's favorite players were the Dream and the Admiral.

I am afraid to draft wiseman, but i am also afraid to not draft wiseman, if he lives up to his potential, it might be the last chance in a while to draft a meaningful big man, but what are the chances he lives up to his potential in today's NBA?

 

[Ozone]

I just think poor defensive players kill you when you get to the upper echelons of the NBA. You can put up great numbers and look great as an individual, but you're going to end up costing your team a lot of games.

yep the upside defensively rarely materializes , rather have the high floor defender early on.

 

[Cavatt]

The whole thing with Wiseman is largely a philosphical debate. Do you draft a center top 5 no matter who he is. Even when I look at the true centers around the league, I think Jokic and Gobert are the only ones that I would draft that high, unless you count Davis. Most agree Wiseman is not on those guys' level.

Tough tough decision. If we trade Drummond we go from having too many centers to having too few instantly.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

The problem with many modern centers is that they are either only useful about 5 feet from the basket or, despite being tall, are useless when only 5 feet from the basket. Wiseman seems to have the mentality of a guy that can play inside and the athletic ability to stretch it out. With this player pool he is the guy I want.

 

[Ozone]

The problem with many modern centers is that they are either only useful about 5 feet from the basket or, despite being tall, are useless when only 5 feet from the basket. Wiseman seems to have the mentality of a guy that can play inside and the athletic ability to stretch it out. With this player pool he is the guy I want.

the sell on him is hes a blank slate with elite length , decent athletic mobility but not that explosive ,that could potentially in 2-3 seasons become more than a meh IQ rim runner /protector ,esp if he develops that shot he loves, but right now needs to be stronger to earn 5 minutes and battle inside right away and he has a history of playing outside of his skillset taking too many ill advised shots and doesn't convert them often.
He also is not very smart at getting to his spots or in the pick and roll yet. He is raw and has rode the "I am bigger than everyone" train into high lottery status.
He is more raw I think then scouting reports have suggested.
The more I watch of him the less I like him.