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(No Longer) Joe Woods’ Defense

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Vee-Rex said:
That's why I specifically asked where you would draw the line - doesn't matter that we had very little talent, or players are screwing up execution, or there isn't good communication. After a certain amount of time, the coach has to answer to that. But it sounds like, hypothetically speaking, you'd give Woods 20+ years of bottom ranked defenses and fault the players? Is there ever a point when you'd be like, "Okay, it has been 60 years, I'm 95 years old, Woods is 109 years old, and in these 60 years our players are still not communicating right, so the onus/responsibility ultimately must fall on the coach."
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Sounds like you are hoping to be provocative for a hard date. Last year, I thought Triplethreat was a moron for continuing to call for BJ Goodson to be benched.

Now, would you ask if I want BJ Goodson to play linebacker until I'm 95 years old? No, that's idiotic. I supported Goodson because absolutely nobody else was playing the position any better for that season. Similarly, nobody is coaching this defense better this season.

Firing a coach mid-season is for tanking teams. Nothing productive comes from it.

At the same time, people who are furious at OBJ fall into the same trappings of scapegoating for a sense of relief. Let's say you cut OBJ today... the team will be worse for this season just as they were without him next year. Improvement through attrition during the season is a myth for the spiteful.

I think fans have become conditioned to think an early mile marker like this one is important for reassessing a team. Well, a little but not to the point of drastic changes in personnel. Last year at this point, the Steelers were undefeated and some called them the best team in the NFL. It's laughable now, but it's a lesson in allowing the season to play out a little more.
 
Ohdang said:
You aren't taking an L because you're literally incapable of it from what I've observed over the last decade plus lol

I never argued that Johnny was the right call, I never even brought him up; you created that strawman. Your stance on how we should have stuck with Hoyer long after he was gone and continuing to plant that flag after it was clear he was just a guy was the hill I was referring to.

In all honesty I don't actually give a shit, I just needed some amusement :D
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I doubt you remember what I said or anyone else said years ago, but like you mentioned your main goal was to be an ass. I'd like to think of RCF as a conversation, not some weird competition of one upmanship. That won't be changing on my end.
 
Randolphkeys said:
Sounds like you are hoping to be provocative for a hard date. Last year, I thought Triplethreat was a moron for continuing to call for BJ Goodson to be benched.

Now, would you ask if I want BJ Goodson to play linebacker until I'm 95 years old? No, that's idiotic. I supported Goodson because absolutely nobody else was playing the position any better for that season. Similarly, nobody is coaching this defense better this season.

Firing a coach mid-season is for tanking teams. Nothing productive comes from it.

At the same time, people who are furious at OBJ fall into the same trappings of scapegoating for a sense of relief. Let's say you cut OBJ today... the team will be worse for this season just as they were without him next year. Improvement through attrition during the season is a myth for the spiteful.

I think fans have become conditioned to think an early mile marker like this one is important for reassessing a team. Well, a little but not to the point of drastic changes in personnel. Last year at this point, the Steelers were undefeated and some called them the best team in the NFL. It's laughable now, but it's a lesson in allowing the season to play out a little more.
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Damn dude... I'm just asking what it would take for you to hold Woods accountable because to date you've been his staunchest defender. Terrible defense? It's because the talent sucks or players are injured. Players not in the right spot or miscommunicating? Completely on the players. 3rd down woes? The players aren't executing. Vanilla defense? It's the players fault for not knowing the defense Woods wants to run.

I was being intentionally hyperbolic about the years. But if you're incapable of even answering that then I'm happy to just move on lol, not trying to strike a nerve or provoke you.
 
Vee-Rex said:
Damn dude... I'm just asking what it would take for you to hold Woods accountable because to date you've been his staunchest defender. Terrible defense? It's because the talent sucks or players are injured. Players not in the right spot or miscommunicating? Completely on the players. 3rd down woes? The players aren't executing. Vanilla defense? It's the players fault for not knowing the defense Woods wants to run.

I was being intentionally hyperbolic about the years. But if you're incapable of even answering that then I'm happy to just move on lol, not trying to strike a nerve or provoke you.
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The guy who turned a thread about our DC into a personal attack did irk me. I think it's important for everyone pissed at Joe Woods after a loss to realize I'm not Joe Woods.

Nothing wrong with your post.

I was long-winded, but did answer your question. Assess jobs after the season.
 
Believe it or not, it's perfectly alright to say "Wow, this isn't going quite as good as I thought it would be, but it helps everyone involved to see a larger sample play out as the season progresses."

Replacing coaches or changing schemes mid-season does way more harm than good. You'd think Browns fans would get that better than anyone...
 
kriegs said:
Yeah, he ought to get out there and make some tackles!
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I'll just be happy if he has his defensive backfield coached up so they don't give up any long, easy touchdown throws due to busted coverages. I'll also be happy if he has his defense coached up well enough that they don't give up any 40 yard running gains on a 3rd and long.

If he could have managed that we might have a few more in the win column.
 
kriegs said:
With JOK out, I think we need Harrison and/or JJ3 in the box more and Delpit more in those deep zones. I guess we will see!
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It’s happening! You love to see it. Uniquely prepared to survive that injury.
 
I have a weird summary of our defense.

We are absolutely elite against bad offenses. Like we play much better than the average defense against bad offenses

but we are below average against elite offenses

the problem is the AFC playoffs is going to be elite offense after elite offense
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
I have a weird summary of our defense.

We are absolutely elite against bad offenses. Like we play much better than the average defense against bad offenses

but we are below average against elite offenses

the problem is the AFC playoffs is going to be elite offense after elite offense
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So we should do well against the Steelers?
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
I have a weird summary of our defense.

We are absolutely elite against bad offenses. Like we play much better than the average defense against bad offenses

but we are below average against elite offenses

the problem is the AFC playoffs is going to be elite offense after elite offense
Click to expand...

What I'm hoping is that the cornerbacks improve the longer they run the defensive zone concepts.Im bearing in mind the Browns spent the preseason resting starters, eliminating unnecessary wear and tear.

Or this scheme is just too much thinking and not enough reacting for the personnel. I'd like to see a few more weeks before any conclusions are drawn.

Interesting enough, articles out of The Denver Post are calling for Pat Shurmur's job because he couldn't sustain drives against this defense. The measure of success seems to change depending on your vantage point.
 
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