(No Longer) Joe Woods’ Defense

[Los216]

I'd chill it on this one. JOK has been incredible.

He's been good but it's not because Joe Woods is utilizing him correctly. He's been good because he's an amazing player.

 

[natedagg]

The NFL actually put together a pretty decent visual graphic based around PFF coverage analysis from last year:

Which NFL teams mix up defensive coverages the most week-to-week | NFL Football Operations

operations.nfl.com

View attachment 12074

I think us and Green Bay stand out as being obsessively slanted toward cover 3/4/6 zones. This meets the eye test. The Browns are so consistent and vanilla in their soft coverage schemes that the opposing QB gets comfortable. I want the opposing QB uncertain--I want him to be guessing every play what we could throw at him. I want players moving around and coverages to be disguised pre-snap. Every tenth of a second you can make an opposing QB hold onto the ball because he's uncertain is a win in the NFL. This is exactly what I want out of my defensive coordinator--someone who is going to take every tenth of a second he can from the QB.

This is exactly what Joe Woods is not.

I don't think that Woods can succeed at this level unless he re-invents himself dramatically. If you're going to play these soft zone schemes this regularly, you have to attack the opponent when you win. What we've seen time-and-time-again is that, even if we win and get the opponent into third and long, he doesn't deviate--he doesn't attack. He just gives the opponent the same easy, comfortable reads and watches as they convert. In his mind, he's telling himself that he called the right defense--but in reality, he's consistently fucking up.

So yes, I'm calling for Joe Woods's head. I'm not expecting the overall scheme to change. We can keep our base defense and everything we've worked on in training camp. However, when the defense wins, or the offense screws up, and we get them in a high leverage situation (like third and 10 with the game on the line), I need a defensive coordinator who can dial up the intensity and make the opposing QB uncomfortable. Joe Woods proved to me on Sunday that he isn't that man.


Note: "Dial up intensity" does not necessarily mean blitzing. It means doing things on the field to make the opposing QB uncomfortable and uncertain.

Hahaha I love this. It went from GM Rafters talking about interviewing Woods about what went wrong. You know, a cool and calculated approach; an assessment, if you will. Then 48 hours later we get that RAW.

I still say if Pitt scores like more than 24, like if they even don’t but they are getting what they want, then that’s it, especially if we see any in-game mutiny from the players. It sucks to make an in-season coaching change but if we really can’t stop Trubiski and that offensive line, then we have to make a change.

For the record I think we play well on D and then keep Woods, which will be a huge mistake and kinda delay the inevitable, but only because the Browns have a way of finding Max Pain for disappointment. Something like the defense lets up 20 and we score 19.

Hopefully we just dominate and put this game far far behind us. Hopefully…

 

[bs80]

The NFL actually put together a pretty decent visual graphic based around PFF coverage analysis from last year:

Which NFL teams mix up defensive coverages the most week-to-week | NFL Football Operations

operations.nfl.com

View attachment 12074

I think us and Green Bay stand out as being obsessively slanted toward cover 3/4/6 zones. This meets the eye test. The Browns are so consistent and vanilla in their soft coverage schemes that the opposing QB gets comfortable. I want the opposing QB uncertain--I want him to be guessing every play what we could throw at him. I want players moving around and coverages to be disguised pre-snap. Every tenth of a second you can make an opposing QB hold onto the ball because he's uncertain is a win in the NFL. This is exactly what I want out of my defensive coordinator--someone who is going to take every tenth of a second he can from the QB.

This is exactly what Joe Woods is not.

I don't think that Woods can succeed at this level unless he re-invents himself dramatically. If you're going to play these soft zone schemes this regularly, you have to attack the opponent when you win. What we've seen time-and-time-again is that, even if we win and get the opponent into third and long, he doesn't deviate--he doesn't attack. He just gives the opponent the same easy, comfortable reads and watches as they convert. In his mind, he's telling himself that he called the right defense--but in reality, he's consistently fucking up.

So yes, I'm calling for Joe Woods's head. I'm not expecting the overall scheme to change. We can keep our base defense and everything we've worked on in training camp. However, when the defense wins, or the offense screws up, and we get them in a high leverage situation (like third and 10 with the game on the line), I need a defensive coordinator who can dial up the intensity and make the opposing QB uncomfortable. Joe Woods proved to me on Sunday that he isn't that man.


Note: "Dial up intensity" does not necessarily mean blitzing. It means doing things on the field to make the opposing QB uncomfortable and uncertain.

Would love to see an updated chart of this, as it appears to only account for weeks 1 through 12 last year. But it is certainly disconcerting that at first glance, we might have been the team that made the least changes on a week-to-week basis. Even NO and GB appear to have a week or two that more anomalous than any particular week that we had. They're telling us that there was no particular opponent that they felt the need to go significantly more zone-heavy or man-heavy against?

 

[natedagg]

I'd chill it on this one. JOK has been incredible.

He is our best defender. It’s not obvious with all of the star power but just watch. Don’t forget those absurd plays from last year. If he stays healthy, he is going to become a new era Ray Lewis. He is very very powerful. I hope he steals the stage on Thursday Night!

 

[Los216]

He is our best defender. It’s not obvious with all of the star power but just watch. Don’t forget those absurd plays from last year. If he stays healthy, he is going to become a new era Ray Lewis. He is very very powerful. I hope he steals the stage on Thursday Night!

He'll never be a Ray Lewis type of player. He'll be more of a Troy Polamalu. Ray Lewis was a LB through and through. JOK is a Safety that can play LB.

 

[Zeus69]

Huh…

Report: Joe Woods given permission to interview for other jobs

With a new defensive mind in town, the Broncos former Defensive Coordinator could be on his way out.

www.milehighreport.com

From the article: Woods has served as the Broncos Defensive Coordinator the past two seasons after replacing Wade Phillips. He had some success in this role for the Broncos, but there plenty of times where the unit struggled and just looked unprepared on the field. Missed assignments, players calling out Woods publicly and reportedly internally, and just inconsistent play from the Broncos defense. It wasn’t all bad, but definitely not what the Broncos hoped from Woods.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Hahaha I love this. It went from GM Rafters talking about interviewing Woods about what went wrong. You know, a cool and calculated approach; an assessment, if you will. Then 48 hours later we get that RAW.

To be fair, that answer doesn't change. If Woods admits his faults and is changing things moving forward, as GM, I wouldn't fire him now. I still would be looking for new DC candidates moving forward.

If I'm making a guess, this dude isn't admitting his faults and changing moving forward. It's been years of this, with small glimpses of progress that repeatedly get walked back. So, without the knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors, I'd lean towards moving on from him.

I still say if Pitt scores like more than 24, like if they even don’t but they are getting what they want, then that’s it

I don't care about results. I care about process.

If we do everything right on defense and some fluky shit happens and Pitt hangs points on us? Eh, whatever.

It's the same reason I was pinning the Corey Davis TD on Denzel Ward when everyone wanted to blame Woods.... and it's the same reason that third and 10 where Garrett Wilson beat a linebacker sitting in zone for the game winning score was the last straw for me. The item the coach is directly responsible for was deficient, so they get the blame.

, especially if we see any in-game mutiny from the players. It sucks to make an in-season coaching change but if we really can’t stop Trubiski and that offensive line, then we have to make a change.

For the record I think we play well on D and then keep Woods, which will be a huge mistake and kinda delay the inevitable, but only because the Browns have a way of finding Max Pain for disappointment. Something like the defense lets up 20 and we score 19.

Hopefully we just dominate and put this game far far behind us. Hopefully…

I agree with this. I don't think we're firing Woods during the season.

On the bright side, I have been super, SUPER impressed with Stefanski and AVP this year. I said before the season that my biggest concern was Stefanski and AVP, and that I needed to see this spread, empty-set offense that we plan to instill with Watson. I said I needed to see more pre-snap motion and more motion at-the-snap to give our QB and weapons advantages. We've seen that while still pounding the rock on offense. I am beyond pleased right now with that duo.

My biggest gripe on offense is that it seems like the plays I'm super happy with come earlier in the game--maybe they're part of the scripted plays. I feel like we weren't doing those things later on. I want to see those positive trends continue throughout the entire game.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

He'll never be a Ray Lewis type of player. He'll be more of a Troy Polamalu. Ray Lewis was a LB through and through. JOK is a Safety that can play LB.

Nope.


I agree with you that Ray Lewis is an awful comp though. He's not a physically dominating, run-stuffing, big hitting MLB.

Polamalu is actually a good comp. A demon around the line of scrimmage that can also cover.

But JOK is nowhere near the player in coverage that Polamalu was.

 

[mAo_mAo]

Huh…

Report: Joe Woods given permission to interview for other jobs

With a new defensive mind in town, the Broncos former Defensive Coordinator could be on his way out.

www.milehighreport.com

From the article: Woods has served as the Broncos Defensive Coordinator the past two seasons after replacing Wade Phillips. He had some success in this role for the Broncos, but there plenty of times where the unit struggled and just looked unprepared on the field. Missed assignments, players calling out Woods publicly and reportedly internally, and just inconsistent play from the Broncos defense. It wasn’t all bad, but definitely not what the Broncos hoped from Woods.

Man oh man. We did not do proper use diligence on this one.

 

[Vee-Rex]

I know I'm probably wrong on this, but it's my deep hope that the only reason they haven't fired Woods yet is because it's a short week.

If we have similar defensive problems against the Steelers where we turn Mitch into Prime Tom Brady, I'm hoping Big Jimmy steps in and make changes. Send Woods out on Friday and use the extended week to recollect ourselves.

As @Los216 said, I have this gut feeling that players probably aren't happy with the play-calling but have largely refrained from throwing it under the bus (Myles last year sorta did it).

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I know I'm probably wrong on this, but it's my deep hope that the only reason they haven't fired Woods yet is because it's a short week.

If we have similar defensive problems against the Steelers where we turn Mitch into Prime Tom Brady, I'm hoping Big Jimmy steps in and make changes. Send Woods out on Friday and use the extended week to recollect ourselves.

As @Los216 said, I have this gut feeling that players probably aren't happy with the play-calling but have largely refrained from throwing it under the bus (Myles last year sorta did it).

I'm not at all worried about Mitch, and y'all shouldn't be worried either.

 

[Vee-Rex]

I'm not at all worried about Mitch, and y'all shouldn't be worried either.

I wasn't worried about Flacco either.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I wasn't worried about Flacco either.

Flacco was better than I expected, for sure, but he also has a decent play caller and LOVES throwing the deep ball.

Mitch is a checkdown king, and Matt Canada is maybe one of the worst play callers in the NFL (only trumped by whoever the hell is calling plays in New England).

The Steelers managed to somehow move their offense closer to the line of scrimmage this year. Without Harris, then are miserably out of sorts.

I'm more worried about the Steelers defense getting a TD than the Steelers offense.

 

[Selby]

We weren't supposed to be afraid of Ben last year either. Or Duck Hodges in 2019.

We are the Browns, they are the Steelers. History suggests we should be worried no matter who is playing QB for them.

Edit: Not trying to be Debbie Downer, this is half coping mechanism and half me refusing to overlook a well-run organization.

 

[CBBI]

I would be very surprised if the Browns actually fired Woods during the season.

That sort of drastic change so early in the season seems to completely go against the process oriented system they have place from DePodesta to Berry to Stefanski and on down.

After the season, sure. But that just doesn't seem like something they would do during the year.