Joe Woods Defense

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Randolphkeys

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I expected our DT's to look like trash. I was very, very worried that Perrion Winfrey's "third third" was going to turn that pick into a bust.

I didn't have high hopes for Taven Bryan. I've been hopeful that Elliott takes a step forward if he just needs to be a nose tackle, but he has never played the position before. Well, it's a bad situation after two games, that's for sure.

I'm not as concerned with Delpit as his play on the field should make me. If I were, I'd have to be crying over the amount of money we paid Denzel Ward to look worse than Andrew Sendejo out there. I'm at the point where I almost need to see Delpit with a competent, in-tune secondary (or another DC) to make a judgment. And yes, it's entirely possible that Delpit is one of the primary reasons for the secondary's disjointedness--but I'm not positive that's the case and I don't know what information could come out that would cement that for me.

I understand the logic behind starting Delpit at free safety. He has the quickness and speed to physically thrive as a free safety. Like the hated Andrew Sendejo, this is a front office who likes a free safety who is a sure tackler. Biggest problem: Delpit isn't processing fast enough. It's a clear lack of experience. I'd be shocked if there is a starting safety lower on the PFF measurements right now. I hope he gets better, but it's fair to be nervous.

The fact that there are other issues on this team doesn't mean that Joe Woods's performance is any better or worse. I think it's entirely fair for people to focus on the conversation they want to without someone saying "Why aren't you talking about these other things? Huh?"

4ugW.gif

I'm trying like hell to segway past just scapegoating the coach and assessing what is and isn't working on the field... that should be part of this thread.

One that you didn't put out there--I think, occasionally, this front office gets away from our scouting (which I think is very good) and drafts people purely based on data. I feel there are certain picks that were almost entirely analytics based, like Jordan Elliott. He reminded me of those awful, untalented receivers we used to draft on day 3.

We share this concern, but at least we know SPARQ stats are less important than play on the field under Berry. David Bell and Alex Wright weren't workout kings with little to back it up like a Sashi Brown era pick.
 

Ohio

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This front office isn't about blowing the cap room for veterans. We learned that in 2020 with the linebackers. We saw it again this year with defensive tackles and receivers not named Amari. Berry expects young guys to improve when given opportunities.

The patience for the offense was short in week one, patience for Joe Woods is short this week. Let's see if some of these weak points improve.

On the plus side, the linebackers have become the strength of the defense in two years.
This is almost the same exact personnel as last year. We probably have as many returning starters on defense as any team in the league. This isn't an experience problem. This is a returning top 10 defense that suddenly can't stop High School kids. Why? How? The Defensive Tackles are not the problem here. Our entire secondary guarding nothing but air is the problem.

The patience for the defense was (or, should have been) short in week one, too. Changes should have been made after the plethora of breakdowns in the Panthers game. Waiting until you lose a game to make changes is organizational malpractice. And when you consider how and why we lost the game...it truly makes it look like the Browns lost that game on purpose. As if it was their intention to guard nobody, particularly when it mattered most.

I'll also add we don't have until the bye week for Woods to pull his head out of his ass. We had until 1:55 left on Sunday. It's already too late; and the bye week is way too late. By then we'd be on a 7 game losing streak and have a full on revolt in the locker room.

NFL teams don't have these problems, let alone good ones. It should not even be possible for this secondary to be as bad as it is right now. I've yet to see a reasonable explanation for this; I tend to believe it is because no such explanation exists. It's inexplicable. And when there are no answers, it's time for significant changes.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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We share this concern, but at least we know SPARQ stats are less important than play on the field under Berry. David Bell and Alex Wright weren't workout kings with little to back it up like a Sashi Brown era pick.
Yep. If we have 3 years of drafting and, at most, 3 picks that look like this I'm pretty happy.
 

Bob_The_Cat

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This front office isn't about blowing the cap room for veterans. We learned that in 2020 with the linebackers. We saw it again this year with defensive tackles and receivers not named Amari. Berry expects young guys to improve when given opportunities.

The patience for the offense was short in week one, patience for Joe Woods is short this week. Let's see if some of these weak points improve.

On the plus side, the linebackers have become the strength of the defense in two years.

I don’t think this is a plus given the amount of high picks and money we’ve spent in the secondary. This secondary should absolutely be the strength of our defense. Instead we’re blowing coverages left and right.
 

Randolphkeys

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This is almost the same exact personnel as last year. We probably have as many returning starters on defense as any team in the league. This isn't an experience problem. This is a returning top 10 defense that suddenly can't stop High School kids. Why? How? The Defensive Tackles are not the problem here. Our entire secondary guarding nothing but air is the problem.

John Johnson has been moved from free safety to his natural strong safety position.

Grant Delpit moved from part-time safety and situational "big nickel" to full time free safety for the first time in his career.

Greg Newsome is playing more nickel than before, Emerson is a true rookie.

Denzel Ward is the only guy in the same role from last year. I get what you mean that they are in the same DB room for film, but a lot of change has occurred.
 

Ohio

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John Johnson has been moved from free safety to his natural strong safety position.

Grant Delpit moved from part-time safety and situational "big nickel" to full time free safety for the first time in his career.

Greg Newsome is playing more nickel than before, Emerson is a true rookie.

Denzel Ward is the only guy in the same role from last year. I get what you mean that they are in the same DB room for film, but a lot of change has occurred.
Interesting, I was not aware JJ3 and Delpit had changed safety positions.

My next question would be: Why did they change positions? Ronnie Harrison is still here, too. Why are we shuffling around safeties?

I've always been a fan of the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." It seems the Browns like fixing what works and sticking with what doesn't :frown new:
 

Smooth

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The problem I have with Woods is the same issues that plagued him in his time are the same things that continue to plague him: big plays and money downs.. The Browns cannot get off the field when they need to most and continually let big plays overshadow most of their defensive work..


The other frustrating part is the inability for the Browns to generate pressure outside of Garrett and Clowney winning one-on-one.. I will say Woods has some good blitz packages to get DBs to the QB but they happen so infrequently that if the front four don't get their on their own then no one does..

Woods is better than some of the other DCs we've seen like Ray Horton, Steve Wilks, Dick Jauron, but I do miss those attacking Gregg Williams, Mike Pettine, Rob Ryan defenses.. This isn't an endorsement of Gregggg but just a stylistic observation that seemed to have the Browns on better footing..
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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The problem I have with Woods is the same issues that plagued him in his time are the same things that continue to plague him: big plays and money downs.. The Browns cannot get off the field when they need to most and continually let big plays overshadow most of their defensive work..


The other frustrating part is the inability for the Browns to generate pressure outside of Garrett and Clowney winning one-on-one.. I will say Woods has some good blitz packages to get DBs to the QB but they happen so infrequently that if the front four don't get their on their own then no one does..

Woods is better than some of the other DCs we've seen like Ray Horton, Steve Wilks, Dick Jauron, but I do miss those attacking Gregg Williams, Mike Pettine, Rob Ryan defenses.. This isn't an endorsement of Gregggg but just a stylistic observation that seemed to have the Browns on better footing..
This lines up with Woods not understanding the purpose of the defense he's calling.

When you run conservative cover 3/4/6 zone schemes, the goal is to make the offense run so many plays that eventually they screw up or you make a play.

When that happens, and it's now third and 10, that's your opportunity to capitalize. That's when you need to attack and get off the field.

Instead he calls the same shit, which is a double fail. It's not designed to be the most successful call in that situation and it's giving the quarterback an obscene amount of comfort and confidence.
 

FrontPageNews

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The problem I have with Woods is the same issues that plagued him in his time are the same things that continue to plague him: big plays and money downs.. The Browns cannot get off the field when they need to most and continually let big plays overshadow most of their defensive work..


The other frustrating part is the inability for the Browns to generate pressure outside of Garrett and Clowney winning one-on-one.. I will say Woods has some good blitz packages to get DBs to the QB but they happen so infrequently that if the front four don't get their on their own then no one does..

Woods is better than some of the other DCs we've seen like Ray Horton, Steve Wilks, Dick Jauron, but I do miss those attacking Gregg Williams, Mike Pettine, Rob Ryan defenses.. This isn't an endorsement of Gregggg but just a stylistic observation that seemed to have the Browns on better footing..
The ole don’t bend but break defense
 

Bob_The_Cat

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The problem I have with Woods is the same issues that plagued him in his time are the same things that continue to plague him: big plays and money downs.. The Browns cannot get off the field when they need to most and continually let big plays overshadow most of their defensive work..


The other frustrating part is the inability for the Browns to generate pressure outside of Garrett and Clowney winning one-on-one.. I will say Woods has some good blitz packages to get DBs to the QB but they happen so infrequently that if the front four don't get their on their own then no one does..

Woods is better than some of the other DCs we've seen like Ray Horton, Steve Wilks, Dick Jauron, but I do miss those attacking Gregg Williams, Mike Pettine, Rob Ryan defenses.. This isn't an endorsement of Gregggg but just a stylistic observation that seemed to have the Browns on better footing..

I think the biggest reason why all our secondary problems are so frustrating is that since 1994, Woods has spent five years as a DC, two years as a quality control coach, and the rest as a defensive backs coach. There can’t be too many guys in the NFL with more experience coaching DB’s than him, yet it seems we’re always having issue being in the wrong coverages or not on the same page. That’s a bigger indictment than not generating pressure or calling proper blitzes. The biggest failures have been coming in his greatest area of expertise.

Also, in 2018 as DC he had Von Miller with 14 sacks and Bradley Chubb, who had 12 sacks as a rookie. The next year he goes to San Fran as DB coach under Saleh with Armsted, Bosa, and Buckner on the DL. Neither of those fronts required a bunch of special stuff to generate pressure because they were so good at doing so on their own. The Browns DL is good if everyone’s there, but there’s not enough depth. Because of it, things just drop off a cliff of Clowney goes out or if Garrett gets worn out, both of which we saw happen this week. When that happens, there appears to be no plan in place to help counteract it. It’s either Myles or Clowney get there or no one does.
 
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Jack Brickman

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The problem I have with Woods is the same issues that plagued him in his time are the same things that continue to plague him: big plays and money downs.. The Browns cannot get off the field when they need to most and continually let big plays overshadow most of their defensive work..


The other frustrating part is the inability for the Browns to generate pressure outside of Garrett and Clowney winning one-on-one.. I will say Woods has some good blitz packages to get DBs to the QB but they happen so infrequently that if the front four don't get their on their own then no one does..

Woods is better than some of the other DCs we've seen like Ray Horton, Steve Wilks, Dick Jauron, but I do miss those attacking Gregg Williams, Mike Pettine, Rob Ryan defenses.. This isn't an endorsement of Gregggg but just a stylistic observation that seemed to have the Browns on better footing..

Lines up with the eye test too. I never have any faith in our defense to get stops on third and long and I’m usually correct and we blow it.
 

shoes22

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I’m still not feeling great about the defense, even though they played better in the second half. I don’t think it’ll be pretty when they actually have to face a team with a more dynamic offense and a better QB than Flacco or Trubinsky.
 

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