John Hart

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prf100

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How can you not give him a high rating? The architect of the dominant 90s Tribe squads... Of course two things he wasn't able to pull off: 1. Getting the ring 2. getting a stud #1 during our 90s run... though he did draft CC Sabathia in 1998... so... sort of?
 

Derek

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He revolutionized the talent retention game for mid-markets with early extensions similar to the ones we still use so well.

However, he had no plan to continue success beyond one contention window and he accomplished very little in Texas and then in Atlanta prior to resigning.
 

Sebastian

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An A. Not an A+ because he missed out on that Ace that would have made those teams transcendent as well as a title.

The 90s Indians teams are probably the best squad to never win a title.

Of course, one would lower the grade to A- if one gives credence to the rumors that Hart refused to trade Jaret Wright for Pedro Martinez.

But would it have made a difference in 1997? Probably not. But 1998, for sure if they would have re-signed Martinez.
 

Derek

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An A. Not an A+ because he missed out on that Ace that would have made those teams transcendent as well as a title.

The 90s Indians teams are probably the best squad to never win a title.

Of course, one would lower the grade to A- if one gives credence to the rumors that Hart refused to trade Jaret Wright for Pedro Martinez.

But would it have made a difference in 1997? Probably not. But 1998, for sure if they would have re-signed Martinez.
I'm not sure I can give him an A, but I'd feel silly giving him a B, so A- it is.

Trading Burnitz and Giles for pennies on the dollar hurts a lot, too. More Giles than Burnitz, but it would have been nice to at least get better value.

Trading for Jeff Kent at midseason to be a utility player and then letting him go, just to watch him be a perennial All-Star is another.

I don't discount Hart for the Indians not getting over the hump. I fault him for how quickly it fell apart after 2001.
 

mult336

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It tough to hate on Kent too much as i remember he was not hitting the world on fire with us or really at any point in his career. Its also crazy that i somehow remember he part of trade that got one of my favorite players as a kid in one Matt Williams.
 

Derek

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It tough to hate on Kent too much as i remember he was not hitting the world on fire with us or really at any point in his career. Its also crazy that i somehow remember he part of trade that got one of my favorite players as a kid in one Matt Williams.
He had been an above-average hitter in each of his five seasons as a mostly full-time player to that point. Nearly a .800 OPS and a 107 OPS+ in his time with the Mets.

I guess we got a Matt Williams rental, but part of a GM's job is recognizing talent. And even if we can claim it was tough to see, it was Hart's job to see it.

Having Giles and Kent in our lineup throughout the early 2000's along with up and coming guys like Sabathia/Lee/Westbrook in the rotation would have prevented us from bottoming out as badly as we did with Wedge/Acta.
 

Lee

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I'm not sure I can give him an A, but I'd feel silly giving him a B, so A- it is.

Trading Burnitz and Giles for pennies on the dollar hurts a lot, too. More Giles than Burnitz, but it would have been nice to at least get better value.

Trading for Jeff Kent at midseason to be a utility player and then letting him go, just to watch him be a perennial All-Star is another.

I don't discount Hart for the Indians not getting over the hump. I fault him for how quickly it fell apart after 2001.
I always thought Kent's becoming an all star had more to do with hitting behind Bonds who might be the most feared hitter of all time...steroids or no steroids.

Bonds is probably the best player of all time, obviously he has his scars/warts whatever, but kent had 12 home runs the year before SF, then 29. Hits behind bonds for years, last year is 37, then moves on and hits 22, just saying its not coincidence.
 

Derek

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I always thought Kent's becoming an all star had more to do with hitting behind Bonds who might be the most feared hitter of all time...steroids or no steroids.

Bonds is probably the best player of all time, obviously he has his scars/warts whatever, but kent had 12 home runs the year before SF, then 29. Hits behind bonds for years, last year is 37, then moves on and hits 22, just saying its not coincidence.
Kent had a couple 20 HR seasons with just around 500 PA with the Mets. He had shown pop before. He went from 22 HR per 672 PA with the Mets (his 162 game average for his career) to 30 HR per 672 PA with the Giants. Honestly, he probably just started juicing with everyone else. It would explain why he was still a silver slugger winner at 37 while playing in LA.

Lineup protection is a myth, but it’s usually referring to who hits behind you, not in front. Sure, having Bonds in front of him boosted his RBI numbers, but I'm not really concerned with that.

Plus, he continued his hitting on the Astros and Dodgers after leaving the Giants.
 
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Out of the Rafters at the Q

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I always thought Kent's becoming an all star had more to do with hitting behind Bonds who might be the most feared hitter of all time...steroids or no steroids.

Bonds is probably the best player of all time, obviously he has his scars/warts whatever, but kent had 12 home runs the year before SF, then 29. Hits behind bonds for years, last year is 37, then moves on and hits 22, just saying its not coincidence.
I always attributed it to PED's.
 

PIP

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If I recall Kent wanted nothing to do with being with the Indians.

Plus you needed a middle of the lineup bat to replace Belle’s departure. Matt Williams filled in nicely and the platoon of Fernandez and Roberts at the end of the season was fine at 2nd...

To me losing out on not upgrading the 1999 staff hurt just as bad.
 

ncinthenext3

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Matt Williams. Now, there's a guy who wanted nothing to do with being with the Indians.
 

Randolphkeys

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Yeah, Matt Williams had the divorce that rocked his world. The trade allowed him to be in the same state as his kids. Nobody can fault Williams for that. It did ruin the best defensive infield I've ever seen with Williams, Omar, both Alomars, and Big Jim Thome. Add Kenny up the middle and the Tribe boasted the best defense and best offense in MLB... they just didn't have starting pitching.

I always enjoyed the end of that run where the best offensive players on a bunch of other teams were former Tribe farmhands. Ritchie Sexton was the best Brewer, Giles was the best Padre, Sean Casey was the best Red... our utility guys could make up an All Star game.
 
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