Josh Gordon discussion

[bob2the2nd]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

He's worth the risk. I mean if they're going to draft a QB, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to trade away his most talented weapons when doing so. I wouldn't do it. I understand he has some history, but he's pretty darn special.

I thought he was just a good receiver heading into the year, but I am starting to retract that. He looks ready to bust out onto the scenes and be a top-5 receiver in this league. Do we really want to lose a weapon like that? A guy that's big, tall, and runs like a deer. I don't.

it doesnt matter how talented he is, or who the browns QB is, if gordon isnt on the playing field. if the browns can get a high 2nd for him or above I take it. If things are as bad as edmonix says they are, the browns need to take what they can get

 

[Birdy89]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

If they feel like he's a lock to violate the conduct policy I would absolutely move him asap. He will be worthless at that point. Santonio Holmes was similarly talented and troubled and he only garnered a 5th round pick(after a 1249yd season).

In between his troubles he has won a Super Bowl and been to multiple conference finals games.

This idea that he is worthless if he misses a year is asinine.

He makes nothing for another 2 years on his rookie deal for what is looking to be all-pro level performance.

Are we cutting Hoyer because he is missing the year? No, we will just bring him back when he is healthy again because he is a bargain at $1 million dollars.

People need to start looking at his potential suspension the way you would an injury prone player.

You know they will miss time, but the good they produce when out there so far outweighs the time they miss that you don't just get rid of them.

If given a choice, would you rather have Josh Gordon on the team having 9 all-pro level seasons at receiver in the next 10 knowing he will miss a year at some point, or just trade him now for a 2nd rounder because he will miss that 1 year and you can't handle it.

He is the most dynamic receiver we've had in the 15 seasons we've been back.

If you really want to blow your mind, go compare his rookie numbers to that of Megatron, and remember that Gordon is still only 22 at a position that usually takes some time before you truly dominate.

You just can't move him for some draft picks because you are scared he might have a dirty test. If he doesn't, then you have dealt a catastrophic blow to this rebuild by giving away a star receiver for a fraction of his value.

People make it seem like he is dead and can never play again if he is suspended for the year. It just means you make other arrangements for that season, and wait until he gets back the following year.

 

[RichRob12]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

Scared money don't make money. People need to stop being scared he messes up. You have a guy who has and shown he has the skill to be top 5 in the league. You just don't give that away. Our offence didn't take off until he got back, that just shows you how important he is to this team.

Without him the browns are 0-2 scoring only 16 points with him your 3-0 scoring 85 points. No other received on our team can has a TD and no other receiver can beat team by themselves, that's how special he is, and your going to let that go to a team that in the hunt for a Superbowl. Unless you can get a block buster deal or close to it, you don't trade him. You take the risk and hope he can his act together.

There is no receivers of his caliber in this draft and your thinking about drafting a qb. He needs a safety blanket to throw to. Gordon can be that for whoever we draft, and last time I checked there isn't a cj, an green or Jones in this draft

 

[Birdy89]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

and last time I checked there isn't a cj, an green or Jones in this draft

As a fun excercise we should compare Gordon's rookie year to the best receivers in the league.

Fitzgerald - 58-780 -8
C. Johnson - 48 -756 -4
A. J Green - 65 -1056 -7
Dez Bryant - 45 -561 -6
A. Johnson - 66-976 - 4
J. Jones - 54 -959 -8
J, Gordon - 50-805 -5

Mind you Josh Gordon had been out of football the year before his rookie year, and missed all of the off-season programs as well because he was a supplemental pick.

He already has over 300 yards receiving in his first 3 games this year and appears ready to take that next step.

I don't think people grasp how good his rookie year was when you consider he had a rookie QB throwing him the ball. His numbers are right there with how the games best performed as rookies, and as you'd hope he has come out like gang busters at the start of the new year.

This kid is going to be a top 5 receiver in the league, and we just have to deal with whatever comes with him.

They don't grow on trees, and by the grace of God on his last pick with the organization Heckertt finally got something right.

 

[Rich]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

Here's the deal. Banner wants to change the culture of the entire organization. Gordon still doesn't know the playbook, he's still a regular at certain nightclubs, he's lost his driving privileges, he shows up late to meetings, accused of loafing in practice, and he's failed two NFL drug tests already. I have heard from a former Browns employee, now working for another AFC North team, that word around the NFL is that Josh Gordon just doesn't get it; that Banner hasn't seen any growth in maturity and the fact he's very cavalier about his "situation" (he thinks he's above the law) compounds the issue. There are rumors out there that some teams wouldn't take him even if the Browns simply waived him, that's supposedly how disruptive this kid is.....

I've said this after the Richardson trade and it's applicable now; let's put things into perspective. Is Josh Gordon the Browns biggest playmaker? That's an easy no, Jordan Cameron is. Is Josh Gordon one strike away from a one year suspension? Yes. Is Josh Gordon making the right decisions to ultimately live a drug free life? It doesn't appear so. Do the Browns need a Josh Gordon type receiver to win? No, a better QB will take care of that. Do we as fans have as much information on the situation as the front office does to make a rational decision? No, we don't.

I just don't see why any fans should have an issue if it's deemed that Josh Gordon's personality isn't a fit for the new Browns. Do people really think Banner is just trying to mess with the fans? Come on. Just because we've won three games, does that mean Banner needs to sellout on his culture changing crusade? Want some stats? Only 12 of the current top 50 receivers in the NFL were 1st round picks so I reject the assertion that talented receivers can't be found late in the 2nd round or at any point after it. I get that fans would be upset because they'd lose a flashy playmaker but fans should be more concerned over the line play and QB play because those two things, in conjunction, would take care of the WR play. I've said it before, I'll say it again, it might take some time to understand it, but Banner really knows his shit. It's fun to bash him because he's quirky and makes shrewd decisions but he knows more than all of his predecessors combined (but that's not saying much).

You'll never manage to put together a team full of choir boys, and if you do, they won't be very good. Some guy is going to be trouble, and at some point you just have to deal with it because he's too good to give up, at least at this point.

 

[RichRob12]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

In between his troubles he has won a Super Bowl and been to multiple conference finals games.

This idea that he is worthless if he misses a year is asinine.

He makes nothing for another 2 years on his rookie deal for what is looking to be all-pro level performance.

Are we cutting Hoyer because he is missing the year? No, we will just bring him back when he is healthy again because he is a bargain at $1 million dollars.

People need to start looking at his potential suspension the way you would an injury prone player.

You know they will miss time, but the good they produce when out there so far outweighs the time they miss that you don't just get rid of them.

If given a choice, would you rather have Josh Gordon on the team having 9 all-pro level seasons at receiver in the next 10 knowing he will miss a year at some point, or just trade him now for a 2nd rounder because he will miss that 1 year and you can't handle it.

He is the most dynamic receiver we've had in the 15 seasons we've been back.

If you really want to blow your mind, go compare his rookie numbers to that of Megatron, and remember that Gordon is still only 22 at a position that usually takes some time before you truly dominate.

You just can't move him for some draft picks because you are scared he might have a dirty test. If he doesn't, then you have dealt a catastrophic blow to this rebuild by giving away a star receiver for a fraction of his value.

People make it seem like he is dead and can never play again if he is suspended for the year. It just means you make other arrangements for that season, and wait until he gets back the following year.

Of those 50 how many are game breakers? Of those 50 how many can still put up number without a legit number 2 received to take some of the focus off them? We have a inconsistent number 2 and a slot guy out there with him. No one is afraid of little and Bess, that's why we only scored 16 points in two games cause the only person you have to account for is Cameron and he only had 1 TD and 4 since josh came back cause Josh opens up things for others to get room cause he draw so much attention. Josh is a game breaker and you give guys like him more rope than you would a OK guy

 

[EdMonix11]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

In between his troubles he has won a Super Bowl and been to multiple conference finals games.

This idea that he is worthless if he misses a year is asinine.

He makes nothing for another 2 years on his rookie deal for what is looking to be all-pro level performance.

Are we cutting Hoyer because he is missing the year? No, we will just bring him back when he is healthy again because he is a bargain at $1 million dollars.

People need to start looking at his potential suspension the way you would an injury prone player.

You know they will miss time, but the good they produce when out there so far outweighs the time they miss that you don't just get rid of them.

If given a choice, would you rather have Josh Gordon on the team having 9 all-pro level seasons at receiver in the next 10 knowing he will miss a year at some point, or just trade him now for a 2nd rounder because he will miss that 1 year and you can't handle it.

He is the most dynamic receiver we've had in the 15 seasons we've been back.

If you really want to blow your mind, go compare his rookie numbers to that of Megatron, and remember that Gordon is still only 22 at a position that usually takes some time before you truly dominate.

You just can't move him for some draft picks because you are scared he might have a dirty test. If he doesn't, then you have dealt a catastrophic blow to this rebuild by giving away a star receiver for a fraction of his value.

People make it seem like he is dead and can never play again if he is suspended for the year. It just means you make other arrangements for that season, and wait until he gets back the following year.

No, he's 100% gone if he screws up again and suspended for a year. He would be waived or accountability in the locker room would be shot at that point and Banner/Lombardi/Chud won't ever let that happen.

 

[Birdy89]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

No, he's 100% gone if he screws up again and suspended for a year. He would be waived or accountability in the locker room would be shot at that point and Banner/Lombardi/Chud won't ever let that happen.

Every player in that locker room is more concerned with winning than they are accountability.

Since the beginning of time there have been different rules for different guys depending on their skill level.

Trading your best offensive player for fear of what he might do will lead to a bigger rebellion among the players that want to win than having him get busted again.

Take that to the bank.

Guys like DQ and Joe Thomas would rather have Gordon and a chance to win than another draft pick that offers no guarantees.

 

[MGMT]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

You'll never manage to put together a team full of choir boys, and if you do, they won't be very good. Some guy is going to be trouble, and at some point you just have to deal with it because he's too good to give up, at least at this point.

Eric Mangini agrees.

 

[Soda]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

Relax.

Ding. Ding. Ding.

We're obviously going to hear about everything Josh Gordon related, we've seen that now. I'd bet the Browns say something like, "if you're not putting a 2nd rounder out there to begin discussions, we're not talking."

Josh Gordon is playing so well that it'd be ignorant to not gauge his value. Doesn't mean they're trading him now, but it does mean that they're thinking about when/if the iron will be hot.

 

[Binkster]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

If Dez Bryant can find a niche with the Cowboys and stay out of the spotlight for all of the wrong reasons, I have confidence that Gordon can do it.

Let's remember, Josh Gordon is not a primadonna receiver nor is he considered a problem child outside of his weed habit:

As a rookie, Gordon was somewhat shy and a bit of a loner. He was force-fed into a starting role after not playing in college for two seasons due to suspensions and transfer. During the Browns season, Gordon had virtually no leisure time away from football. As a result, his phenomenal skills were directed to a productive first season. The third-youngest player in the NFL last year, Gordon took small steps on the road to stardom.

And now he's "running with the wrong crowd" all of a sudden and "has a bad work ethic."

Why?

Because he smokes weed? Newsflash, he did so in college before the reports of "running with the wrong crowd." Bad work ethic? Coaches have shot that notion down time and again. Was he out of shape? Possibly, but many players are especially those who are suspended.

If we're going to point out his shortcomings, let's at least call a spade a spade. The kid is introverted compared to the flashy nature of the position. He smokes weed habitually. Get him off the shit during the season and we're golden.

 

[AZ_]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

Every player in that locker room is more concerned with winning than they are accountability.

Since the beginning of time there have been different rules for different guys depending on their skill level.

Trading your best offensive player for fear of what he might do will lead to a bigger rebellion among the players that want to win than having him get busted again.

Take that to the bank.

Guys like DQ and Joe Thomas would rather have Gordon and a chance to win than another draft pick that offers no guarantees.

You spouted this same exact bullshit when Richardson was dealt.

It's tired.

If they're trading him, which they aren't, the players are smart enough to know why he was dealt and if it's bad enough to be traded then that emphasizes the point that much more that he was a cancerous personality.

Since he's still on the team, I don't think it's reached that point yet.

 

[Binkster]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

If they're trading him, which they aren't, the players are smart enough to know why he was dealt and if it's bad enough to be traded then that emphasizes the point that much more that he was a cancerous personality.

I don't think anyone is saying he has a cancerous personality, are they? I thought the issue was substance abuse, not a volatile attitude that has been infectious to teammates and coaches.

 

[AZ_]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

I don't think anyone is saying he has a cancerous personality, are they? I thought the issue was substance abuse, not a volatile attitude that has been infectious to teammates and coaches.

No, but that WOULD be the message sent if the Browns decided to deal him.

Which to this point hasn't happened.

 

[bigfoot5415]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

With Richardson, it looked pretty bad. It was out of left field, and we were throwing away a guy who was a 3rd overall pick.

I was probably Top 5 in the Upset category because I still see some potential in him. However, I see the direction our offense is going in and am happy to take the better fit in the first rd with the new pick than a back that didnt fit. As weeks go on I see him as a goal line back and there is nothing wrong with that. However, to get a 1st rounder for that type of player is a steal.

Gordon however is already a phenomenal player. At his current value he is worth more in this offense than T-Rich could ever be. His value now is probably a 1st, but the fan feedback isnt worth the trade off. However, if he continues to improve and work hard on the field. He can and will be Top 3 WR in the game. That is something you do not come by easily. Im not worried about the off the field issues. Id rather take a risk. If we want to be contenders, we need to gamble on guys like this instead of settling for choir boys like Brian Robiskie.