JR Smith

AussieCavFan

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When you add the luxury tax, guaranteed probably multi year contract we'd receive and the damaged trade deadline flexibility, I understand why we won't trade JR unless we are blown away.
 

thedarkness2332

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The Cavs blew it by not trading JR either during the draft or in the days preceding free agency. His contract just doesn’t have much value anymore. They overplayed their hand, when in reality, there were teams with cap space and/or trade exceptions that could make the same or better deals, with the teams looking to clear salary. I can guarantee you Sam Presti would’ve gotten something of value for JR Smith’s contract
No. Just no.

Using JR’s contact involves us plunging roughly $12-15 million into the repeater tax, which we would then have to navigate very swiftly to get out of throughout the year.

Thus, the asset we get from the deal needs to exceed the asset we may have to give up to get under the tax at the deadline.

This would be a very expensive move for ownership. Dan is very willing to spend, but there’s a limit to it.

I can assure you, Sam Presti would NOT have taken advantage of this contract as Clay Bennett never would allow the spending.

In much the same way, Koby has a limited green light from Dan in that he’d be willing to spend now as long as there’s a vision to get out of the tax by the trade deadline. If what we receive is not worth it (a late 1st), you should just waive him and give yourself the flexibility for later.

However, if you can use it to poach a young player you like—ala Justise Winslow—then you make the move now and worry about navigating the tax later.
 

sailfish

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No. Just no.

Using JR’s contact involves us plunging roughly $12-15 million into the repeater tax, which we would then have to navigate very swiftly to get out of throughout the year.

Thus, the asset we get from the deal needs to exceed the asset we may have to give up to get under the tax at the deadline.

This would be a very expensive move for ownership. Dan is very willing to spend, but there’s a limit to it.

I can assure you, Sam Presti would NOT have taken advantage of this contract as Clay Bennett never would allow the spending.

In much the same way, Koby has a limited green light from Dan in that he’d be willing to spend now as long as there’s a vision to get out of the tax by the trade deadline. If what we receive is not worth it (a late 1st), you should just waive him and give yourself the flexibility for later.

However, if you can use it to poach a young player you like—ala Justise Winslow—then you make the move now and worry about navigating the tax later.
Why do you say Clay Bennett is a cheapskate? The Thunder have been in the top five for salary spent in like the last five years and have paid the luxury tax. Also, Sam Presti is an outstanding GM, far better than anything we’ve seen here in Cleveland, aside from maybe David Griffin.

Also, if you’re not wanting to go further into the tax then why pay another $500K to JR. It’s like the Cavs are just giving money away.
 

thedarkness2332

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Why do you say Clay Bennett is a cheapskate? The Thunder have been in the top five for salary spent in like the last five years and have paid the luxury tax. Also, Sam Presti is an outstanding GM, far better than anything we’ve seen here in Cleveland, aside from maybe David Griffin.

Also, if you’re not wanting to go further into the tax then why pay another $500K to JR. It’s like the Cavs are just giving money away.
I think they’ve been close on a few deals and extended Smith’s date as they’ve turned themselves into one of a small handful of teams capable of facilitating moves that open up cap space. As we get later in this game, the price becomes the price. We set that price. Miami and OKC dealing Westbrook is a perfect landing spot for JR given Miami’s cap situation and OKC’s desire to get under the luxury line.

I do think they had/have intentions of trading his contract, but only if it meets a specific asking price.

Again, if we do make the move to take on salary—and even stretch Knight for example—we’d still be over the cap and further moves would be required by the end of the year.

The asset has to be a damn good asset. If it isn’t, the cost to get under the cap later is probably equivalent or more than you’re receiving back for Smith. At that point, you may as well just use your own tax relief.

Bennett has made it clear that he wants under the tax for this upcoming season. OKC just shipped off a good young player for a late 1st. The tax bill is very important to him right now.

I think Koby is getting a bad rap around these boards when it’s completely unfounded.
 

sailfish

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I think they’ve been close on a few deals and extended Smith’s date as they’ve turned themselves into one of a small handful of teams capable of facilitating moves that open up cap space. As we get later in this game, the price becomes the price. We set that price. Miami and OKC dealing Westbrook is a perfect landing spot for JR given Miami’s cap situation and OKC’s desire to get under the luxury line.

I do think they had/have intentions of trading his contract, but only if it meets a specific asking price.

Again, if we do make the move to take on salary—and even stretch Knight for example—we’d still be over the cap and further moves would be required by the end of the year.

The asset has to be a damn good asset. If it isn’t, the cost to get under the cap later is probably equivalent or more than you’re receiving back for Smith. At that point, you may as well just use your own tax relief.

Bennett has made it clear that he wants under the tax for this upcoming season. OKC just shipped off a good young player for a late 1st. The tax bill is very important to him right now.

I think Koby is getting a bad rap around these boards when it’s completely unfounded.
The Cavs appear to have overplayed their hand with the JR Smith contract. There were teams below the cap and others with trade exceptions, who were willing to absorb contracts and those were more valuable.

Free agency has essentially come to a close now and there are still some teams with cap room to absorb a contract. Do you only way JR‘s contract gains value is if there are really no other alternative is it a team wants to get below the luxury tax. However, the Cavs are running out of time.
 

KI4MVP

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Free agency has essentially come to a close now and there are still some teams with cap room to absorb a contract. Do you only way JR‘s contract gains value is if there are really no other alternative is it a team wants to get below the luxury tax. However, the Cavs are running out of time.
What teams?


Hawks have $4.3 million in cap space, Kings have $1.4 million.

Only Dallas and Denver have trade exceptions over $10 million. Those two, plus JR's contract are the only 3 options left for a team who wants to shed $10-14 million in salary. If Denver uses their exception, they go into the tax themselves.
 

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The Cavs appear to have overplayed their hand with the JR Smith contract. There were teams below the cap and others with trade exceptions, who were willing to absorb contracts and those were more valuable.

Free agency has essentially come to a close now and there are still some teams with cap room to absorb a contract. Do you only way JR‘s contract gains value is if there are really no other alternative is it a team wants to get below the luxury tax. However, the Cavs are running out of time.
I think there are and have been deals out there for JR's contract. I don't think it's a matter of Koby overplaying his hand but him having an actual value of what he would require in return to make a deal. The situation we are in its not just a matter of taking the best deal available, but weighing up the value of the deal compared to it's potential to impact future maybe more lucrative deals.
 

thedarkness2332

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The Cavs appear to have overplayed their hand with the JR Smith contract. There were teams below the cap and others with trade exceptions, who were willing to absorb contracts and those were more valuable.

Free agency has essentially come to a close now and there are still some teams with cap room to absorb a contract. Do you only way JR‘s contract gains value is if there are really no other alternative is it a team wants to get below the luxury tax. However, the Cavs are running out of time.
And if they run out of time, they cost themselves $500 K—no harm, no foul.

It’s really not a big deal.

Now, hearing things like “Cavs could’ve had #17 and Crabbe” at last year’s deadline, I get where it seems we overplayed the hand. That made me jumpy, too, because it felt like a baseline.

Plus, we heard that we were close with Miami and Orlando.

However, the guy we would’ve taken at #13, #16, #17, we ended up getting at #30 in a purchase.

Numerous sources have reported how high we were on Porter Jr. in the #10-20 range. He was brought in, vetted, and wined and dined with the coaching staff and front office. Intel suggested he was falling out of the lottery for a variety of reasons.

They got their man, and they kept the JR contract. At that point, it now becomes even more of a “have to be blown away” situation.

Again, I’d gladly take someone back like Winslow or Adebayo—and one of those Clippers 1st’s. It just takes two to tango.
 

Douglar

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I’ve heard that story too, but it don’t make sense. If the Cavs wanted Port Jr that much, why didn’t they draft him at 26?

It's been said that if the Cavs were to trade into the late lottery on draft night, their 2 targets were Langford and Porter Jr. Cavs weren't able to successfully find a trade partner before Boston's pick (and Boston took Langford).

We acquired Porter Jr. for 3 second picks and 5 million (that we were going to lose anyway as the league switched from 2018-19 to 2019-20 finances shortly after the draft). If I recall correctly, the 3 second round picks included a top-55 protected pick (AKA - who cares?), and at least 1 of the other 2 picks (if not both) were from teams that will likely finish in the playoffs (i.e., they'll end up in the 45-60 range).

I'd much rather give up what we gave up for Porter Jr. (likely 2 mid-2nd round picks at best), rather than use JR's non-guaranteed contract to take on an ugly contract (that would cost us in both salary and likely luxury tax).
Cavs
 

NMCav

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I’ve heard that story too, but it don’t make sense. If the Cavs wanted Port Jr that much, why didn’t they draft him at 26?


Cavs
A lot of mocks had Warriors taking Windler. Windler also seems like a Spurs type player. Maybe they knew the teams after them hadn't talked much to KPJ. Maybe they switched from Keldon Johnson to Windler because the Spurs would have taken KPJ if Keldon wasn't left. All kinds of questions. We never know what truly goes on in the front office on draft night.
 

thedarkness2332

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I’ve heard that story too, but it don’t make sense. If the Cavs wanted Port Jr that much, why didn’t they draft him at 26?


Cavs
I think that one’s pretty simple.

In that #18-#30 range, you’re looking at playoff teams often looking for role players who can step in immediately. Affordable rookies to fill a role—perhaps replacing a free agent you can no longer afford. Not always, but the general rule.

This usually makes young projects—even with a world of talent like Porter Jr.—slide at this point once they get out of the lottery/teens. Teams just don’t have the minutes to develop these guys. Combine some small stuff on Porter Jr. like personality flags, suspension, and his hip injury, and he was a natural candidate to fall.

In this range, a ready-made shooter like Windler is pretty coveted.

With the speed of the draft outside of the lottery, I think plenty of intel exists on who is being picked by whom.

The Cavs likely had a deal for #30 in place around #20 real-time and by #26, had the intel confirming Porter Jr. would likely be there at 30. On the other hand, also coveting Windler, they may have suspected a few teams—perhaps San Antonio—as landing spots so they had to get him there.
 

avs2000

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I think that one’s pretty simple.

In that #18-#30 range, you’re looking at playoff teams often looking for role players who can step in immediately. Affordable rookies to fill a role—perhaps replacing a free agent you can no longer afford. Not always, but the general rule.

This usually makes young projects—even with a world of talent like Porter Jr.—slide at this point once they get out of the lottery/teens. Teams just don’t have the minutes to develop these guys. Combine some small stuff on Porter Jr. like personality flags, suspension, and his hip injury, and he was a natural candidate to fall.

In this range, a ready-made shooter like Windler is pretty coveted.

With the speed of the draft outside of the lottery, I think plenty of intel exists on who is being picked by whom.

The Cavs likely had a deal for #30 in place around #20 real-time and by #26, had the intel confirming Porter Jr. would likely be there at 30. On the other hand, also coveting Windler, they may have suspected a few teams—perhaps San Antonio—as landing spots so they had to get him there.
Cavs made right choice. Windler looks nba ready and will benefit from sexton and garland driving. Porter the project was worth the pick at 30
 

InBoobieWeTrust

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I’ve heard that story too, but it don’t make sense. If the Cavs wanted Port Jr that much, why didn’t they draft him at 26?


Cavs
They knew he would be there at 30 and knew they had that deal basically done. The draft rooms generally operate multiple picks ahead of even the stuff Woj breaks.

I think what happened is they were going to go for Keldon Johnson, then they got the deal for #30 done, so they took Windler instead because they knew Porter was their guy at 30. Just my best guess,
 

InBoobieWeTrust

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The Cavs appear to have overplayed their hand with the JR Smith contract. There were teams below the cap and others with trade exceptions, who were willing to absorb contracts and those were more valuable.

Free agency has essentially come to a close now and there are still some teams with cap room to absorb a contract. Do you only way JR‘s contract gains value is if there are really no other alternative is it a team wants to get below the luxury tax. However, the Cavs are running out of time.
The Cavs,I believe specifically once Romeo Langford was gone at 14, simply didn't think any pick in this specific draft, after that (starting at #16) was worth JR's deal given the luxury tax implications. If the repeater tax wasn't involved, it would be a different story.

They may or may not still make a move, but it has to be worth it.

They still achieved their goal of adding another first round pick(for 3 late 2nd's and one that wont ever convey...and cash). So basically, they got #30 for approx 7.5 million in cash value instead of #16 for approx $30 million in value plus the repeater tax not resetting.

The Cavs added multiple first rounders for longer term salary during the season. They will do the same again next season. JR's contract is a unique opportunity to either reset the repeater tax for good going forward OR adding something that is worth losing that flexibility.

Stretching contract's is possible yes, but man that's annoying to have that $ on your books going forward...ask the Lakers about how much they enjoy Deng's $5 million dollars still on their books.
 

WorldFreeB

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Not sure how reliable these people are but I've seen this elsewhere as well,,something may be cooking here.
[B]Basketball Rehab[/B]‏ @[B]BasketballRehab[/B] 58m58 minutes ago
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Adams, Schroder and Westbrook most likely names left that will get moved. Kings wanted Ferguson OKC wouldn't include talks currently dead. Jr Smith contract likely going to OKC and providing additional cap relief, Cle is getting something just unsure of what that is.


View: https://twitter.com/BasketballRehab/status/1147854022658920449

[B]Basketball Rehab[/B]‏ @[B]BasketballRehab[/B] 1h1 hour ago
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Basketball Rehab Retweeted Basketball Rehab
Turns out Cavs are 3rd team facilitator. That makes way more sense.
Basketball Rehab added,
Basketball Rehab @BasketballRehab
File this under not sure what to think but Cavaliers have also reached out to Thunder about a Russell Westbrook trade.
15 replies11 retweets53 likes
 
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