Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[Jscc]

Love brings a lot to the team. We've asked him to be vintage Love many times this season and he has. If he's running low on energy then give him games off here and there.

 

[Jscc]

I can see either a contending team or a team that is desperate to make a move perhaps making a trade for Love. It might involve taking back a bad contract, like a John Wall or a Russell Westbrook. While those contracts are just as bad, if not worse than Love’s, at least those players are not as fragile as Love has been and would help replace what Rubio gave us. Steamers in desperate need of some additional ball handlers & creators

I don't want Westbrook or Wall anywhere in the same State as this team.

 

[avs2000]

There’s part of me that sees that Love has been a valuable veteran contributor off the bench this year and we could ill afford to lose him.

There’s another part of me that knows that Love has been a China doll the last couple of seasons and he could go down with an injury at any moment. That part of me thinks we’d be crazy not to trade him while he’s perhaps not a negative asset anymore, but maybe a neutral asset.

In the end, I think we’d be foolish not to listen to trade offers involving Love. A package of Love & Sexton could fetch us something decent.

Always listen. But we have to take a big contract back as well. If that includes a young wing or tall pg. but without loves production off the bench the playoffs this year would be in doubt
Loves expiring at the deadline next year could be huge imo

 

[sailfish]

Always listen. But we have to take a big contract back as well. If that includes a young wing or tall pg. but without loves production off the bench the playoffs this year would be in doubt
Loves expiring at the deadline next year could be huge imo

I don’t know about expiring contracts having the same kind of value anymore. We thought the same last year with Drummond‘s contract and nothing came of that. Same went for Tristan Thompson before him. We have Rubio‘s heading contract as well and will see if anything comes of that this year

 

[buzzdog]

Once again... yes, he tried hard early in the season and had a great attitude. I've commended him for it many times.

But that did not last. Love is a different player now.

Like I said before, all 30+ NBA vets try to save their legs, to an extent, in the regular season. I have no problem with that. But there's a long way from going at 60% or 70% to blatantly not giving any effort at all.

That's what I want from Love - at least give the impression you're trying on D. Everyone else is.

Anyone who's played competitive organized basketball knows that defensively, a lineup works as a unit. That doesn't mean that every defender is equal, or should be. It's almost always the case that there is a weakest link, and everyone knows who it is. But the thing is – as long as that weakest link is still trying hard, the unit can function. A big part of defense is effort and sacrifice and trying to do your part.

But when one player stops competing, the others look at him and go "Why am I out here busting my ass when that motherfucker is conceding layups?" It ruins the one thing that keeps a lineup together on defense. That's why Love's freeloading is so damaging.

When Love "concedes" a layup he isn't the only one at fault, it's usually at least 2 other guys who are blowing the concept of the lineup "working as a unit". Sometimes when a player breaks completely open for an easy layup it's best to just move on to the next play and try to get it right the next time down the floor.

I've seen a number of times where Love has contested successfully in recent games. In the recent losses there have also been way too many complete defensive breakdowns. Against the Warriors it was their scheme, execution and experience that opened up open lanes through our paint defense. Against the Bulls it was more likely just team fatigue and lack of focus after the grueling road trip experience.

But it's never only Love, it almost always takes 2 or 3 guys breaking their assignments on a single possession to create those wide open drives to the hoop you're complaining about (and putting all the blame on Love). Mobley and JA can still contest in some of these situations because they can use their length and hops to go up and challenge paint shots even when they're in horrible position to do so. Love has to be engaged early, or at least find himself in an advantageous position at the right time to effectively contest a shot. if he knows it's a lost cause then why should he waste the energy and potential for fouling, when it very well might make more basketball sense to move on and get it right the next time?

 

[KevinLoveFan]

Wade is the Sauce Castillo of PFs. Looks ok for a bit then you realize they’re both very marginal NBA players at best.

Windler has shown more aggression than Wade lately and I wouldn’t call Windler the Red Bull.

On second thought … the Red Bull! The front court partner to Young Bull. He’s too effing old to keep running that baby giraffe gif.

Seriously, though, can’t possibly play Wade and Windler at the same time (both spend a lot of time anchored on the three point line). So Wade’s not going to see minutes without injuries elsewhere or a trade (and if any trade means more Wade that’s a bad trade).

Yep. Wade is a guy who usually gets small minutes here and there. When the Cavs were forced to play him more earlier in the season, he remained extremely passive on the offensive end. It's not like he's played only with garbage guys while Love has been a starter all season; both have come off the bench and started at different times depending on the lineups, matchups, and player availability of a given game. Wade is a guy who takes four shots in about 20 mpg. His 3 pt pct is only 32% this season. Even with Love's drop-off in recent games, Love's still getting double figures in points because he's good at getting to the line, getting put backs etc. Wade literally cannot score at all unless someone else sets him up, and even then, he's overall a considerably worse shooter than Love.

JBB realizes Love's slump won't last forever. He may never regain quite the hot pace he was on with Rubio, but as I mentioned in another post, even a LeBron era Love would be helpful for the Cavs. The team's biggest strength is still defense, so they need a guy like Love who can score in a variety of ways. As the season goes further down the stretch, they will keep going to Love, because Wade doesn't offer them enough of what they need. I'm not going to say Wade shouldn't be playing NBA basketball because he gives no effort in creating his own shot, but any realistic person knows he shouldn't be getting consistent minutes over Love. I can't believe that some even still try to argue otherwise here, especially after Wade had a stretch earlier in the season where he played heavier minutes and gave the Cavs next to nothing on offense, but thankfully they aren't running the team.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Who leads this team taking charges?

Kevin Love.

He literally IS busting his ass.

No, he can't rotate over and defend a fast athletic player. He’d have to foul and that accomplishes nothing. He’s not a rim protector, never has been.

But he does provide some value on D with taking charges and his rebounding.

 

[Dr No]

Yep. Wade is a guy who usually gets small minutes here and there. When the Cavs were forced to play him more earlier in the season, he remained extremely passive on the offensive end. It's not like he's played only with garbage guys while Love has been a starter all season; both have come off the bench and started at different times depending on the lineups, matchups, and player availability of a given game. Wade is a guy who takes four shots in about 20 mpg. His 3 pt pct is only 32% this season. Even with Love's drop-off in recent games, Love's still getting double figures in points because he's good at getting to the line, getting put backs etc. Wade literally cannot score at all unless someone else sets him up, and even then, he's overall a considerably worse shooter than Love.

JBB realizes Love's slump won't last forever. He may never regain quite the hot pace he was on with Rubio, but as I mentioned in another post, even a LeBron era Love would be helpful for the Cavs. The team's biggest strength is still defense, so they need a guy like Love who can score in a variety of ways. As the season goes further down the stretch, they will keep going to Love, because Wade doesn't offer them enough of what they need. I'm not going to say Wade shouldn't be playing NBA basketball because he gives no effort in creating his own shot, but any realistic person knows he shouldn't be getting consistent minutes over Love. I can't believe that some even still try to argue otherwise here, especially after Wade had a stretch earlier in the season where he played heavier minutes and gave the Cavs next to nothing on offense, but thankfully they aren't running the team.

I realize your moniker indicates your loyalty, but Wade can and has scored for us. He’s been over 16 points 11 times since March of last year in limited opportunities. He’s not the shooter or scorer that Love is, but he also doesn’t have the green light Love has. I’ve been a Kevin defender even when he was nearly indefensible the previous 2 years, but the original comment that started this hasn’t changed - Kevin is a large liability on defense on his best nights. And with the effort he’s been giving lately, he is legitimately one of the worst defensive players in the league. If he’s not scoring at a very efficient rate, he’s not helpful. And I’d rather watch Wade (or anyone else) pass up open shots if he’s playing hard and contributing in other ways.

 

[Heat Check]

Who leads this team taking charges?

Kevin Love.

Come on, he's making a virtue out of necessity. Yes, he takes charges right under the basket, because standing in place is the only thing he does there anyway.

I know it takes some timing (and balls) to do that, but before we fall in love with it, we should remember all the awkward times when he sets up to take a charge from a driving guard, and the guy just euro steps around him and gets a free layup.

Taking a charge is like pulling a chair. It's nice when you succesfully do it on occasion, but you can't base your defense on that.

I'm not a Love hater, far from it. I think he's extremely skilled, has – on the whole – done a very good job this season, and seems to be a great teammate now. But I have to call it like it see it. He's been pretty bad of late.

 

[KevinLoveFan]

I realize your moniker indicates your loyalty, but Wade can and has scored for us. He’s been over 16 points 11 times since March of last year in limited opportunities. He’s not the shooter or scorer that Love is, but he also doesn’t have the green light Love has. I’ve been a Kevin defender even when he was nearly indefensible the previous 2 years, but the original comment that started this hasn’t changed - Kevin is a large liability on defense on his best nights. And with the effort he’s been giving lately, he is legitimately one of the worst defensive players in the league. If he’s not scoring at a very efficient rate, he’s not helpful. And I’d rather watch Wade (or anyone else) pass up open shots if he’s playing hard and contributing in other ways.

I understand the criticism of his defense. I was always a defense oriented player when I played, so I get the frustration over his lack of effort there, and I've made posts to that effect.

I just don't see Wade as anywhere near an overall improvement just because he's a better defender. He was largely ineffective in larger minutes earlier this season. We got annoyed with him in the game threads for not taking shots, for missing lots of open threes when he finally did take shots. He's also a considerably worse rebounder than Love. At best, he earns spot minutes for his defense and team play. What he cannot do is score at the clip Love does, or rebound similarly. Since the Cavs are already a primarily defensive team, it makes sense to keep playing Love, and cover for his defensive deficiencies. He'll get out of his slump eventually. There's no need to panic and give a lot more time to Wade just because Love is in a bit of a slump. And I know JBB won't do it. He's not going to play a minor role player over an arguable HOFer just because the arguable HOFer is not shooting as well lately, because JBB understands what Love usually brings on offense that Wade cannot.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Wade scores at a lower ppm rate than anyone that’s played for us this year except Pangos, Davis and Fall.

He’s a better defender than Love but by nowhere near enough to make up for Kevin’s superior scoring, rebounding and passing.

 

[Heat Check]

Wade scores at a lower ppm rate than anyone that’s played for us this year except Pangos, Davis and Fall.

He’s a better defender than Love but by nowhere near enough to make up for Kevin’s superior scoring, rebounding and passing.

Love is averaging 2 assists per game. Not bad for the minutes he's playing, but hardly indispensable.

As for rebounding, he's keeping his numbers afloat by staying under the basket instead of challenging shooters or closing out. Bad tradeoff IMO.

Love's thing this season is putting up shots in the 2nd unit. For a while he did a fantastic job... lately, not so much. Let's hope his slump ends soon. I'd still like to give him a few games off.

 

[buzzdog]

It's obvious that Love can't recover and contest the way JA, Mobley, or even Lauri can. He can't stay in front of a quick guard or wing as well either. What Love can do is hold down his assignment when the whole team is holding down their assignments. When the whole defense is being effective at staying in front of their man and playing on a string then Love can wall off his man and hold his own. What he can't do is cover for times when someone else blows their assignment the way our other bigs can.

And you can't minimize the fact that Love taking charges creates a turnover, and it counts just as much as a steal or a blocked shot that we recover. And in brief flashes Love does effectively contest, block, and get his hands on the ball. People who denigrate his defense seem to almost completely ignore all those positive plays after we get beat in the few games where our whole team dropped off defensively.

 

[Heat Check]

It's obvious that Love can't recover and contest the way JA, Mobley, or even Lauri can. He can't stay in front of a quick guard or wing as well either. What Love can do is hold down his assignment when the whole team is holding down their assignments. When the whole defense is being effective at staying in front of their man and playing on a string then Love can wall off his man and hold his own. What he can't do is cover for times when someone else blows their assignment the way our other bigs can.

And you can't minimize the fact that Love taking charges creates a turnover, and it counts just as much as a steal or a blocked shot that we recover. And in brief flashes Love does effectively contest, block, and get his hands on the ball. People who denigrate his defense seem to almost completely ignore all those positive plays after we get beat in the few games where our whole team dropped off defensively.

I know what you're saying, but there's been a very noticeable drop off in Love's performance recently. I wouldn't have been nearly this critical four weeks ago. That's what my complaints are about, not so much Love as an NBA player... despite all his quirks and flaws.

For once, I'd like to see JBB react in a timely manner and do something before Love either gets an overuse injury or really falls off a cliff, losing us an important game.

 

[buzzdog]

I know what you're saying, but there's been a very noticeable drop off in Love's performance recently. I wouldn't have been nearly this critical four weeks ago. That's what my complaints are about, not so much Love as an NBA player... despite all his quirks and flaws.

For once, I'd like to see JBB react in a timely manner and do something before Love either gets an overuse injury or really falls off a cliff, losing us an important game.

I agree completely. I want to see JBB use guys like Wade and Windler to take some of the strain off the guys like Love, while giving Love the minutes he can handle. I'm a bit concerned that that kind of effective juggling of lineups may be over JBB's ability level, or maybe it isn't even on his radar. Same goes for using Rondo and Goodwin to take more of the strain off Garland. We agree that JBB needs to use deeper and more responsive rotations, he tends to get stuck in the mud with one set of players when he should be more responsive in trying some different combinations and more focused on resting key guys when they show signs of wear or fatigue.