Kevin Love

J_J

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Having a shooter like Love will help Sexton’s development further and whoever we draft this year. It was obvious when Love played during his minimal time together with Sexton, Sexton played better. It spread the floor and allowed Sexton to explode to the hoop and utilize his strengths.
 

sailfish

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What kind of asset do you think someone will be willing to give up if we trade them Love for a pick and a bad contract? Because all the arguments about being overpaid are going to apply equally to whatever overpaid stiff we'd be taking back in return for Love. So, we'd be giving up an overpaid but useful player for an overpaid but useless (or at least, much less useful) player.

So what's a sample deal you think would be reasonable?
Here’s three:

1) Love for Danilo Gallinari & Miami’s 2021 unprotected 1st round pick, owned by the Clippers. If KD or Kawhi sigh there, as rumored, they will need a guy that can shoot & rebound.
2) Love, JR Smith, & 2nd round pick to Portland for Evan Turner, Mo Harkless, Zach Collins, & Anfernee Simons.
3) Love, JR Smith, & Cedi Osman to Charlotte for Nic Batum, Bismack Biyombo, Miles Bridges, Malik Monk, & a 1st round pick.
 

thedarkness2332

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I wonder if this tweet from Love means that a trade to Utah is imminent?

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/kevinlove/status/1136791057293877248
While that means nothing...

Kevin Love would be a tremendous fit in Utah next to Gobert and Mitchell. Tremendous.

He's the perfect complement offensively to take them to the next level--even work some offense through him. Meanwhile, they have the system and personnel to completely mitigate his issues defensively. It's hard to find a better basketball fit for Kevin, really.
 
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sailfish

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While that means nothing...

Kevin Love would be a tremendous fit in Utah next to Gobert and Mitchell. Tremendous.
I don’t know that it doesn’t mean anything...putting ‘Western Conference’ in the tweet seems to indicate it could be basketball-related and not just a vacation destination.

Love for Derrick Favors (partially guaranteed), Grayson Allen, & Tony Bradley works under the cap. Maybe we could get them to throw in a first round pick as well?

Favors’ $16M contract is fully non-guaranteed, if waived by 7/5, and that could be another very valuable trade piece for a team looking to clear cap space.
 
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thedarkness2332

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I don’t know that it doesn’t mean anything...putting ‘Western Conference’ in the tweet seems to indicate it could be basketball-related and not just a vacation destination.

Love for Derrick Favors (partially guaranteed), Grayson Allen, & Tony Bradley works under the cap. Maybe we could get them to throw in a first round pick as well?

Favors’ $16M contract is fully non-guaranteed, if waived by 7/5, and that could be another very valuable trade piece for a team looking to clear cap space.
I'm not particularly high on Allen or Bradley, so in my mind, yes, it would require #23.
 

2 For The Brew

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I don’t think anyone is proposing ‘dumping’ Kevin Love. We are saying the following:

1) Love is one of our more valuable assets.
That doesn't say much for our assets. I think it's an open question as to just how "valuable" he is on the market. This is my major point -- if he's not all that valuable then we're not losing much by keeping him.

2) Love turns 31 prior to the start of the 2019-‘20 season and his value is only going to go down from here.
You could make the same comment about any player over 30. Their "value" (i.e. sum of all future games) does go down, but during that time you get their contributions. Also, as time passes the remaining liability for his contract declines as well.

3) The Cavs clearly held him out of games last year, which may have helped the team’s odds in the draft lottery, but it hurt his stock.
Don't see how that is decision-relevant. If anything, this point makes trading him less advisable that it would have been.

4) with the Cavs owning another top 10 protected pick on 2020, we are likely to see more of the same this season, which means paying Love $30 million to sit & watch.
I don't agree that Dan Gilbert & the Cavaliers will hold Kevin out just to improve draft position or even keep the pick -- they MAY do that late in the year to ensure they don't lose the pick but that's far from a sure thing.

5) with the Cavs in the midst of a rebuild, Love holds more value to the team as a possible trade asset, which can help accelerate said rebuild, than as a player. Additionally, by the time the team is ready to compete again, Love will be well last his prime and on his last legs.
That depends on exactly what asset(s) the Cavaliers can get for him. If we can get decent assets for him, I'm all for trading him; if not, keep him.

There are some select contending teams (Portland, OKC, Clippers, Celtics, Hornets) that MAY be willing to take a chance on his big contract and gamble that he can stay healthy, in exchange for some assets. Granted, the Cavs will almost certainly have to take back at least one bad contract in return, to get some assets. However, waiting is not likely to help his value any.
Taking a bad contract is a liability that hurts the team. You have to subtract that from the value of any assets obtained to value the deal fairly.

My goodness, people need to get over their sentimental feelings towards Love. If Mark Price could be traded then Love certainly can and he hasn’t had half the career Price did as a Cav. Clevelanders sure get attached to their successful white athletes...Price, Z, Delly, & now Love.
I get attached to successful athletes. IDGAF what race they are, and frankly your comment is laughable IMHO. Sports fans in general don't give a shit about race -- they want the best players. That even applies in Mississippi these days. As far as Love is concerned, if we get a good package then we need to pull the trigger. His race has nothing to do with it.
 
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sailfish

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That doesn't say much for our assets. I think it's an open question as to just how "valuable" he is on the market. This is my major point -- if he's not all that valuable then we're not losing much by keeping him.



You could make the same comment about any player over 30. Their "value" (i.e. sum of all future games) does go down, but during that time you get their contributions. Also, as time passes the remaining liability for his contract declines as well.



Don't see how that is decision-relevant. If anything, this point makes trading him less advisable that it would have been.



I don't agree that Dan Gilbert & the Cavaliers will hold Kevin out just to improve draft position or even keep the pick -- they MAY do that late in the year to ensure they don't lose the pick but that's far from a sure thing.



That depends on exactly what asset(s) the Cavaliers can get for him. If we can get decent assets for him, I'm all for trading him; if not, keep him.



Taking a bad contract is a liability that hurts the team. You have to subtract that from the value of any assets obtained to value the deal fairly.



I get attached to successful athletes. IDGAF what race they are, and frankly your comment is laughable IMHO. Sports fans in general don't give a shit about race -- they want the best players. That even applies in Mississippi these days. As far as Love is concerned, if we get a good package then we need to pull the trigger. His race has nothing to do with it.
Respectfully disagree. Unfortunately I absolutely do think twice race something g to do for it, at least it does for some people.
That doesn't say much for our assets. I think it's an open question as to just how "valuable" he is on the market. This is my major point -- if he's not all that valuable then we're not losing much by keeping him.



You could make the same comment about any player over 30. Their "value" (i.e. sum of all future games) does go down, but during that time you get their contributions. Also, as time passes the remaining liability for his contract declines as well.



Don't see how that is decision-relevant. If anything, this point makes trading him less advisable that it would have been.



I don't agree that Dan Gilbert & the Cavaliers will hold Kevin out just to improve draft position or even keep the pick -- they MAY do that late in the year to ensure they don't lose the pick but that's far from a sure thing.



That depends on exactly what asset(s) the Cavaliers can get for him. If we can get decent assets for him, I'm all for trading him; if not, keep him.



Taking a bad contract is a liability that hurts the team. You have to subtract that from the value of any assets obtained to value the deal fairly.



I get attached to successful athletes. IDGAF what race they are, and frankly your comment is laughable IMHO. Sports fans in general don't give a shit about race -- they want the best players. That even applies in Mississippi these days. As far as Love is concerned, if we get a good package then we need to pull the trigger. His race has nothing to do with it.
I really don’t want to get into a debate about race. I have my own thoughts on why many Cavs fans seem to embrace certain players and not others. Bottom line, I agree with your second to last sentence. ‘Good package’ is obviously open for interpretation and will certainly change & need to be redefined as Love ages.
 

DirtyDan

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I guess it's a matter of where Love is most valuable to this team. Whether it's being on it or turned into assets. Looking at that extension, yikes, there's no way this guy should stay here for the duration. He has very little chance of playing up to those numbers when he's 33/34.

The longer that Love stays here, the more risk of him falling of a cliff physically and then becoming a net negative because of his contract. Although it might slow the development of the young guys to trade Love; Love's floor spacing, passing, and IQ can be replaced to an extent.

Love loves Cleveland and has given this city everything. It's time to let him finish his career on a contender and let them be strapped with his contract when he suddenly turns into Ryan Anderson. Because you can only wait so long before you're stuck in a situation like Houston is with Chris Paul.

I really, really don't want to see Love moved now, but at the same time I don't want an upcoming roster to miss an opportunity to become a contender because they got sentimental about keeping Love. It's all about 2020 and beyond, not 2019.
 

avs2000

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I guess it's a matter of where Love is most valuable to this team. Whether it's being on it or turned into assets. Looking at that extension, yikes, there's no way this guy should stay here for the duration. He has very little chance of playing up to those numbers when he's 33/34.

The longer that Love stays here, the more risk of him falling of a cliff physically and then becoming a net negative because of his contract. Although it might slow the development of the young guys to trade Love; Love's floor spacing, passing, and IQ can be replaced to an extent.

Love loves Cleveland and has given this city everything. It's time to let him finish his career on a contender and let them be strapped with his contract when he suddenly turns into Ryan Anderson. Because you can only wait so long before you're stuck in a situation like Houston is with Chris Paul.

I really, really don't want to see Love moved now, but at the same time I don't want an upcoming roster to miss an opportunity to become a contender because they got sentimental about keeping Love. It's all about 2020 and beyond, not 2019.
I think you gamble love can stay healthy, play well up to the deadline next year then trade him to a strong contender
 

sailfish

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I’ve come around on the Cavs keeping Kevin Love, as it’s apparent, at least to me, that John Beilein believes he can have this team competing sooner rather than later. This rebuild may not be as long as many of us thought. The things the Cavaliers have to be careful of is not getting caught in no man’s land, known as the late lottery/fringe playoff teams...just think back to those Mike Fratello-coached, overachieving Cavs teams of the 1990’s.
 

MarkPriceFan

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I’ve come around on the Cavs keeping Kevin Love, as it’s apparent, at least to me, that John Beilein believes he can have this team competing sooner rather than later. This rebuild may not be as long as many of us thought. The things the Cavaliers have to be careful of is not getting caught in no man’s land, known as the late lottery/fringe playoff teams...just think back to those Mike Fratello-coached, overachieving Cavs teams of the 1990’s.
I think we all fear this, but I kinda wonder if the new lottery rules have changed the landscape more than we all realize. Look at all the late lottery teams that jumped up to high picks this year. With the odds set the way they are, there's a lot more opportunity for a team that is already solid and a fringe playoff team to luck out and land a top player with a higher lottery pick that puts them over the top. I get the impression the Cavs are viewing things this way. Yes this past year we went full tank after all the injuries. And to some degree it still helps to guarantee yourself one of the top 5 picks, but I don't think you're going to see as many teams following the Sixers model of long several year plans of tanking repeatedly to get the top picks. It doesn't look like that's something teams can safely rely on any longer.
 

sailfish

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I think we all fear this, but I kinda wonder if the new lottery rules have changed the landscape more than we all realize. Look at all the late lottery teams that jumped up to high picks this year. With the odds set the way they are, there's a lot more opportunity for a team that is already solid and a fringe playoff team to luck out and land a top player with a higher lottery pick that puts them over the top. I get the impression the Cavs are viewing things this way. Yes this past year we went full tank after all the injuries. And to some degree it still helps to guarantee yourself one of the top 5 picks, but I don't think you're going to see as many teams following the Sixers model of long several year plans of tanking repeatedly to get the top picks. It doesn't look like that's something teams can safely rely on any longer.
The new lottery rules flatten the odds and really help the middle-tier lottery teams, as we saw with New Orleans and Memphis jumping up into the top 4. The Lakers jumping up from 11th is more of an outlier, as the bottom-end lottery teams didn’t see their odds increase much at all. I still think we will see teams scrambling for ping-pong balls, especially when there is a strong draft ahead.

My fear is the Cavaliers, under Beilein, will now turn into those Mike Fratello-led teams, that being an overachieving bunch, who is never bad enough to get a high pick and just good enough to contend for the 7th or 8th playoff seed. Maybe the Cavaliers will use the new lottery odds as an excuse, but, make no mistake, mediocrity is a sure fire way to get nowhere fast. That’s until the fans & ownership tire of it and demand change. Just look at what’s happened with a team like Charlotte.
 
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KevinLoveFan

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No it means love vacations in Utah every offseason. Look at his IG it’s amazing out there.
Yeah I wouldn't read anything into it. He goes there all the time in the off-season.

Another media source tried to link Love to OKC, with headlines saying they "could trade" for him. I'm a Thunder fan and would obviously love to see him play for OKC (and reunite with his college teammate Westbrook), but these headlines were simply to manipulate fans into reading a trade idea from a guy from a web site. He thought it would be a good deal if the Thunder went through with the trade he personally conceptualized. The Thunder themselves have exhibited no interest, though.

This kind of thing happens with Love every off-season in Cleveland, but he never goes anywhere. With his contract and age, I'm sure he will stay put.
 
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