Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[LeeBuckeye]

I was hoping he would ball out and up his value but sadly that won't be the case. Lillard, who was the biggest name left, also withdrew yesterday. I know it's not exactly the Olympics but what the hell is going on with the mass exodus?

Guards: Walker, Donovan Mitchell, Lowry, Marcus Smart
Wings: Middleton, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Harrison Barnes, P.J. Tucker.
Bigs: Andre Drummond, Myles Turner, Kyle Kuzma, Paul Millsap, Brook Lopez, Thaddeus Young, Julius Randle

The 2014 team had major names withdraw from the team (Bron, KD, Kawhi, CP3 and PG) but still fielded AD, Curry, Harden, Kyrie, Klay and Cousins. They actually had to cut Lillard because they were so loaded at the guard position.

 

[avs2000]

Now more than ever, teams value salary cap flexibility. We recently saw, with the Paul-Westbrook trade, what the market is for players that are on the plus side of 30 and who are signed a long-term contracts...and it ain’t good!

The market for Westbrook, a guy who averaged a triple double the last three seasons, was so depressed that OKC traded him for a a couple of draft picks and a guy that has perhaps the worst contract in the NBA. Ironically, the Thunder will now have to attach draft picks to Chris Paul to have any hopes of trading him.

The Cavs may have thought they were doing a good thing for the franchise in signing Kevin Love to that long-term contract, but the moment he signed it, his value went down. The Cavs may not like the offers they are getting for Kevin Love, but you can’t turn chicken sh!t into chicken salad...and that contract is absolutely the former.

Whether we hold onto Love for another week, another month, or another year, his value is only likely to go down further. That’s until he’s an expiring contract (that cap flexibility thing) , when his value will go back up, but that’s still a whopping three years away.

The Cavs are in a catch-22 with Love. They want to prove he’s healthy in an effort to rehab his trade value. However, they don’t want to play him too much because he will hurt their chances of tanking and, if they win too much, they forfeit their first round pick to New Orleans. They have to pay him $30 million a year regardless and, if he doesn’t play, he is just a depreciating asset, literally rotting away on our bench.

Sorry. I dont see love as chickenshit. I saw a horrid team play much better when he played. I am fine if we never trade him. Glad he is in cleve

 

[Cavatt]

Sorry. I dont see love as chickenshit. I saw a horrid team play much better when he played. I am fine if we never trade him. Glad he is in cleve

Did you hear Collin saying he needs Kevin on the team, and he has taught him so much? I get a 30 year old guy might not want to be around a bunch of 19 year olds, but man he really can help that team a lot. It sucks that because of where we are we are supposed to trade our best player for nothing, when we can enjoy him playing on our team into the primes of these young guys.

I get that he might want to contend, but he has already won, and so few guys get that. He has achieved the best thing possible in his career and in the most spectacular way. I was against Kevin when he first came mostly due to injury concerns which I think turned out to be correct. At this point, I like his game enough and he is actually a good fit for what they are building. I am hoping he stays around for 2 seasons at least. I'd like him to make the playoffs with the young team and steal some games from the best teams in the east.

 

[Cavatt]

Kevin Love provides real organizational value/. You literally have to spend your cap room on SOMEBODY. And Love's ceiling in terms of a trade value piece was and still is way higher than anything else you're signing for that money.

All it takes is 2-3 healthy months of an efficient 19-12-4 on 40% from 3 and a playoff team either 1. Thinking they're 1 move away from being title contenders or 2. getting desperate to fix their situation. He's also a great locker room guy who understands the sacrifice necessary.


Kevin Love's contract isn't even that bad. In a league where you have John Wall, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, etc making 38/40/42/45/47 million increasing every year.

Kevin Love is making 29 million dollars this year. then 31/31/29 for the rest of his deal. Hassan Whiteside is making like 25 million dollars this year, for comparison. Kevin is only turning 31. He will only be 34 at the end of his contract. 34 is not that old--it may be close to the end of a guy like Love's career

His contract simply is not some albatross anchor tearing down our franchise. We're rebuilding anyway and he's a valuable cultural piece and means something to this fanbase.

Obviously his tendency to end up with nagging injuries on a consistent basis is the worst part of his value. But in an era of load management and minute restrictions and taking back-to-backs off, he should be fine. Aside from when Olynyk tore his shoulder apart and the one game he lost to concussion in the Finals, Love has been available for the playoffs 3 of the 4 years we went to the Finals. That's really what teams are trading for. He's a knockdown stretch big, he's an elite rebounder on both ends, he is a good passer, he's a Champion.

The Cavs have 0 reason to have to trade Kevin Love. If we can get a good value package, then sure. If not, I'm fine with waiting out. I don't anticipate some kind of free-fall in terms of ability/production over the next 3-4 seasons. If nobody wants him now, I guarantee someone will want him at the end of his contract in the last 1-2 years and eventually we will be able to get SOME value for him. If in the meantime he gives our two young (hopefully)stud guards a bunch of floor spacing/lessons on how to be a pro, then so be it.

I don't think the Love contract was a mistake at all. Use him the best way possible for our team. No need to try to showcase him. Just let him be a good leader, and do his thing. Don't play him in back-to-backs. Keep him around 28-30 minutes a night. Practice load management liberally.

Also, the alternative was to let Kevin walk. So we could have nothing. I would rather have Love than Nothing.

 

[cavsfever]

Get real, he's a bad contract at this point, which makes him very difficult to trade.

 

[Randolphkeys]

These arguments have grown incredibly tiresome.

Kevin Love is 30, which is the same as Blake Griffin and a year older than Draymond Green. This is his prime. It's not like he is Al Horford, Paul Millsap or LaMarcus Aldridge - fellow multiple All Stars with trade value who are 33 and 34, respectively.

Kevin Love had his regular season games played managed for minor injuries, just like Kyrie Irving and LeBron did for the Cavs contending seasons. For comparison, Draymond, Durant and Steph Curry had similar regular season breaks.

Statements that Love was any more injury prone than the rest of the major contributors to the 2015-2018 Cavs vs. Warriors war were greatly exaggerated by those who didn't think highly of Love the entire time. That was their loss, and a reflection on their ability to look past confirmation bias.

 

[benchplayer]

These arguments have grown incredibly tiresome.

Kevin Love is 30, which is the same as Blake Griffin and half a year older than Draymond Green. This is his prime. It's not like he is Al Horford or LaMarcus Aldridge - fellow multiple All Stars who are 33 and 34, respectively.

Kevin Love had his regular season games played managed for minor injuries, just like Kyrie Irving and LeBeon did for the Cavs contending seasons. For comparison, Draymond and Steph Curry had similar regular season breaks.

Statements that Love was any more injury prone than the rest of the major contributors to the 2015-2018 Cavs vs. Warriors war were greatly exaggerated by those who didn't think highly of Love the entire time. That was their loss, and a reflection on their ability to look past confirmation bias.

Yeah, I'm getting tired of people talking about love like he's some scrub or something.

 

[cavsfever]

Come on, we were all here during Kevin's entire run. He's not a scrub, he's a good player, but he's not really an all-star level player either. He has his moments, but he's a limited player in the modern NBA. It's not just his regular season injuries but his inconsistent playoff performances. Over his entire Cleveland playoff career he was a 15/10 guy on a 49.4% effective shooting percentage (55% true shooting) -- not bad but not great. Add that to his defensive limitations and his inability to create his own shot and take over in clutch situations, and he's not a star. $30 million/per for the next four years is the kind of salary you want to pay to a star. Yes, he could make an on court difference to the right contender, but if you are a contender that also means you have to manage your salary cap carefully.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Come on, we were all here during Kevin's entire run. He's not a scrub, he's a good player, but he's not really an all-star level player either. He has his moments, but he's a limited player in the modern NBA. It's not just his regular season injuries but his inconsistent playoff performances. Over his entire Cleveland playoff career he was a 15/10 guy on a 49.4% effective shooting percentage (55% true shooting) -- not bad but not great. Add that to his defensive limitations and his inability to create his own shot and take over in clutch situations, and he's not a star. $30 million/per for the next four years is the kind of salary you want to pay to a star. Yes, he could make an on court difference to the right contender, but if you are a contender that also means you have to manage your salary cap carefully.

You just built your thesis around him not being an All Star level player.

He has been to the All Star Game five times.

You are illustrating why I just took a year off from posting in the Cavs section. In the 21st century, people have turned away from seeking information on the internet. Instead, they made up their minds on what they believe and search the internet for any scrap of proof that they have never been wrong.

It's sad and not worth much of my time or efforts. I've spent three months wondering why RCF still exists. Not even exaggerating.

Just remember that most of the sources you see posing Kevin Love trades do so because they want to see him in another market with a team closer to the playoffs, and the people covering the NBA want the best players concentrated on a handful of teams. The franchise's best interests have nothing to do with finding trade scenarios for Kevin Love to leave in exchange for ________.

 

[Cavatt]

It's also neglecting the fact that the games this year will be watchable when Kevin is playing, and not very fun when he is not.

People want to unload him so quick. Just ride it out, as the cap rises and the years come off the contract, it will be very trade able. We don't need to get out of the tax now, so giving up an asset to get rid of our best player sounds like something we don't want to do. Also, the flattened lottery odds don't make it beneficial to do so.

The only reason to trade him is if you think we break 30 wins with him and we lose our pick to the Pelicans. I guarantee, he gets shut down late season if it looks like that will happen.

 

[Green Lantern]

These arguments have grown incredibly tiresome.

Kevin Love is 30, which is the same as Blake Griffin and a year older than Draymond Green. This is his prime. It's not like he is Al Horford, Paul Millsap or LaMarcus Aldridge - fellow multiple All Stars with trade value who are 33 and 34, respectively.

Kevin Love had his regular season games played managed for minor injuries, just like Kyrie Irving and LeBron did for the Cavs contending seasons. For comparison, Draymond, Durant and Steph Curry had similar regular season breaks.

Statements that Love was any more injury prone than the rest of the major contributors to the 2015-2018 Cavs vs. Warriors war were greatly exaggerated by those who didn't think highly of Love the entire time. That was their loss, and a reflection on their ability to look past confirmation bias.

Some have never valued Love.
Admittedly I saw times early on when he came that he seemed soft when going against a more aggressive player but that he fought through that.
But he has been a solid value and people forget some of those explosive games he had.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Kevin Love provides real organizational value/. You literally have to spend your cap room on SOMEBODY. And Love's ceiling in terms of a trade value piece was and still is way higher than anything else you're signing for that money.

All it takes is 2-3 healthy months of an efficient 19-12-4 on 40% from 3 and a playoff team either 1. Thinking they're 1 move away from being title contenders or 2. getting desperate to fix their situation. He's also a great locker room guy who understands the sacrifice necessary.


Kevin Love's contract isn't even that bad. In a league where you have John Wall, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, etc making 38/40/42/45/47 million increasing every year.

Kevin Love is making 29 million dollars this year. then 31/31/29 for the rest of his deal. Hassan Whiteside is making like 25 million dollars this year, for comparison. Kevin is only turning 31. He will only be 34 at the end of his contract. 34 is not that old--it may be close to the end of a guy like Love's career

His contract simply is not some albatross anchor tearing down our franchise. We're rebuilding anyway and he's a valuable cultural piece and means something to this fanbase.

Obviously his tendency to end up with nagging injuries on a consistent basis is the worst part of his value. But in an era of load management and minute restrictions and taking back-to-backs off, he should be fine. Aside from when Olynyk tore his shoulder apart and the one game he lost to concussion in the Finals, Love has been available for the playoffs 3 of the 4 years we went to the Finals. That's really what teams are trading for. He's a knockdown stretch big, he's an elite rebounder on both ends, he is a good passer, he's a Champion.

The Cavs have 0 reason to have to trade Kevin Love. If we can get a good value package, then sure. If not, I'm fine with waiting out. I don't anticipate some kind of free-fall in terms of ability/production over the next 3-4 seasons. If nobody wants him now, I guarantee someone will want him at the end of his contract in the last 1-2 years and eventually we will be able to get SOME value for him. If in the meantime he gives our two young (hopefully)stud guards a bunch of floor spacing/lessons on how to be a pro, then so be it.

I don't think the Love contract was a mistake at all. Use him the best way possible for our team. No need to try to showcase him. Just let him be a good leader, and do his thing. Don't play him in back-to-backs. Keep him around 28-30 minutes a night. Practice load management liberally.

The other point is that if we're trading Love, we're taking back that much money as well, so the contract aspect of this may zero itself out - length aside.

If we trade him for some overpaid stiffs, then a team is losing a stiff/stiff(s) in exchange for a double/double machine with a great shot. And that has real positive value, especially given how weak the FA market is next year.

 

[sailfish]

The other point is that if we're trading Love, we're taking back that much money as well, so the contract aspect of this may zero itself out - length aside.

If we trade him for some overpaid stiffs, then a team is losing a stiff/stiff(s) in exchange for a double/double machine with a great shot. And that has real positive value, especially given how weak the FA market is next year.

If you trade Love, the goal would be to get some combination of:

1) draft picks
2) young players
3) veterans on shorter-term deals

In reality, Love’s contract is such that you will likely have to take back one bad contract in any deal for him. You just hope it’s a shorter-term deal, at least.

The market for Love has pretty much evaporated this summer. Some teams, like Portland, Denver, San Antonio, Boston, Brooklyn, & Golden State, could become interested during the season, if he plays well & stays healthy.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

If you trade Love, the goal would be to get some combination of:

1) draft picks
2) young players
3) veterans on shorter-term deals

In reality, Love’s contract is such that you will likely have to take back one bad contract in any deal for him. You just hope it’s a shorter-term deal, at least...Some teams, like Portland, Denver, San Antonio, Boston, Brooklyn, & Golden State, could become interested during the season, if he plays well & stays healthy.

Right, because the nature of a trade for most teams is that the salaries have to roughly balance, and young players and draft picks won't do that. So we'll have to take back vet contracts to make the money work for the team acquiring him.

And there's the value for the other team - get rid of much less useful vet/vets, get back very useful Kevin Love in return, and toss in other assets to make it worthwhile for us. His value is likely to be higher after the first of the year, after teams have a chance to see how the league is shaking out, and can get a better sense of their own chances of being more competitive by trading for Love.

 

[Splitz]

How can a big who can spread the floor and drain threes not be right for the modern NBA?