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Kevin Love

Randolphkeys

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I tend to agree. I think Love made a soft trade demand (ie a request to be moved to a contender). However, just as they overestimated the value of JR’s contract, they seem to have overestimated Love’s value. I think he will be moved eventually, once they come to grips with how the league views & values Love. In a league that values cap flexibility, Love’s contract, along with his injury history, will not make him easy to move, at least for what the Cavs are looking for in return.
As long as we live in a world where just today, July 30th, I read a Bleacher Report shit article suggesting Love straight up for Hasaan Whiteside is "mutually beneficial for both teams" because of cap space provided next year for the Cavaliers, where others currently value Love doesn't matter. While I don't really think the front office handled the JR Smith contract correctly, I hope they remain much more aware of Love's potential increase in trade value simply by playing a healthy year under a coach who created effective offensive game plans. Reports of what other teams will offer for Love are objectively low ball as long as Love shows he is healthy and in a good system again. GMs who sell low shouldn't expect to be GMs anymore within the end of the calendar year.
 

inliner311

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I tend to agree. I think Love made a soft trade demand (ie a request to be moved to a contender). However, just as they overestimated the value of JR’s contract, they seem to have overestimated Love’s value. I think he will be moved eventually, once they come to grips with how the league views & values Love. In a league that values cap flexibility, Love’s contract, along with his injury history, will not make him easy to move, at least for what the Cavs are looking for in return.
I think they thought JRs contract would be worth it's most this summer before free agency, they were clearly wrong. I do think it's easier to settle on value with a player vs a unique contract like JRs. Koby has pulled the trigger on getting back proper value for George Hill, Korver, Hood, and Burks.

Love is a player that another team would add to a stable situation to get them to the next level. He isn't a #1 or #2 option but he is a very high level 3rd option that you can count on to give consistent scoring at multiple levels. With how free agency shook out and so many teams ended up with 2 stars, I think most are just looking to make sure those their #1 and #2 guys mesh before finding that third player to make a big 3.

I also think teams are holding on to those assets to see if they truly need a big 3 to compete and what kind of player they need. By the deadline I think a stretch 4 like Love might be in very high demand to push a playoff team to a real contender.
 

Ozone

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I'm going to change three words on your post, Ozone....

Love's value on these boards is pretty deflated by comparison to opinions around the league.
He was injury prone, paid reasonably and has a lot to prove before the Cavs can expect to get any real value moving him , I think he stays in a Cavs jersey until he retires, unless he turns back the clock this season and draws some legitimate offers
wait you think he was paid in line with his production ,or as a reward for his service during the finals runs? I think it was the 2nd option. He is overpaid to trade without paying to move him unless he has a really solid season.
Maybe you think these boards are down on his value, but it looks a lot worse elsewhere. Nobody wants his contract because they are afraid of his ability or lack of ability to stay on the floor.
I think right now he is worth a couple smaller expiring's and a bad 1st and the Cavs are unlikely to accept that low of an offer.
 

Randolphkeys

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wait you think he was paid in line with his production ,or as a reward for his service during the finals runs? I think it was the 2nd option. He is overpaid to trade without paying to move him unless he has a really solid season.
Maybe you think these boards are down on his value, but it looks a lot worse elsewhere. Nobody wants his contract because they are afraid of his ability or lack of ability to stay on the floor.
I think right now he is worth a couple smaller expiring's and a bad 1st and the Cavs are unlikely to accept that low of an offer.
Comparable All Star contracts of the last two years... same time the Cavs negotiated with 2018 All Star Kevin Love, in the middle of his prime:



 

inliner311

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wait you think he was paid in line with his production ,or as a reward for his service during the finals runs? I think it was the 2nd option. He is overpaid to trade without paying to move him unless he has a really solid season.
Maybe you think these boards are down on his value, but it looks a lot worse elsewhere. Nobody wants his contract because they are afraid of his ability or lack of ability to stay on the floor.
I think right now he is worth a couple smaller expiring's and a bad 1st and the Cavs are unlikely to accept that low of an offer.
I think there was an initial sticker shock with Love's contact but the yearly amount really doesn't change thru the life of the contract. His 2020-2021 salary will be in line with the max contracts of players coming off their rookie deals. DeAngelo Russell's contract is real close to the same contract Love is on.

I think teams will find Love's contract increasingly more palatable as time goes on. When they look at their future salary cap situations, Love's contract at the deadline will look more neutral than it currently looks for this current season.

I also think the fact that Love is a stretch 4 and the depth at that position hasn't developed will help his value.
 

brownindian

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The important thing for me is to see what the team is planning to do this year. Are we going to tank apologetically or are we going to try and win ?
 

bigking777

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I believe a small bit of the value of the contract was based on what happened in the past or ancillary to his play on the court(championship, playoff experience, good soldier, ambassador for mental health).
Love is not an old, broken down player. Last year he was shut down, probably longer than needed, but that was the Cavaliers situation.
A 31 year old stretch four with Love's ability would command a 4 year deal at $30 million per in today's market.
I understand your argument. But that is based solely on injuries. The staff should manage his minutes going forward, as most players seem to do these days. And that should help the Cavaliers this season keep their top-10 protected pick.
 

InBoobieWeTrust

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The important thing for me is to see what the team is planning to do this year. Are we going to tank apologetically or are we going to try and win ?
I think we will play to win but ultimately we are going to not be good enough to lose the pick we now owe to the Pelicans. If we are on the border, I could see us using some maneuvers to ensure we keep the pick as it's an important asset.
 

jking948

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As long as we live in a world where just today, July 30th, I read a Bleacher Report shit article suggesting Love straight up for Hasaan Whiteside is "mutually beneficial for both teams" because of cap space provided next year for the Cavaliers, where others currently value Love doesn't matter. While I don't really think the front office handled the JR Smith contract correctly, I hope they remain much more aware of Love's potential increase in trade value simply by playing a healthy year under a coach who created effective offensive game plans. Reports of what other teams will offer for Love are objectively low ball as long as Love shows he is healthy and in a good system again. GMs who sell low shouldn't expect to be GMs anymore within the end of the calendar year.
Was the trade literally straight-up?

That's so dumb. Whiteside's only value to the team is that he is a free agent next year. He does not make teammates better, is not a long-term piece, and has no value as an asset. Kevin Love makes his teammates better when he plays, an eventually nab some sort of young asset, and actually has history with Cleveland.
 

Randolphkeys

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Was the trade literally straight-up?

That's so dumb. Whiteside's only value to the team is that he is a free agent next year. He does not make teammates better, is not a long-term piece, and has no value as an asset. Kevin Love makes his teammates better when he plays, an eventually nab some sort of young asset, and actually has history with Cleveland.
I didn't post the article because I hate giving shit takes more readership, but here it is:


When the Cavs aren't contenders, this is how the franchise is viewed. Nobody cares how a Kevin Love trade helps this franchise, because the only people who care about the Cavaliers future is Cavs fans.
 

Ozone

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I believe a small bit of the value of the contract was based on what happened in the past or ancillary to his play on the court(championship, playoff experience, good soldier, ambassador for mental health).
Love is not an old, broken down player. Last year he was shut down, probably longer than needed, but that was the Cavaliers situation.
A 31 year old stretch four with Love's ability would command a 4 year deal at $30 million per in today's market.
I understand your argument. But that is based solely on injuries. The staff should manage his minutes going forward, as most players seem to do these days. And that should help the Cavaliers this season keep their top-10 protected pick.
I cannot see other organizations thinking his trade value is good enough to fork over what Cavs will expect for him knowing his value to them based on other players bad contracts that bring more to the court by not being injury prone is good apples to apples.
Yes he is not a broken down player. He is injury prone on the end of his prime years for trade purposes though due to his age/contract and injury history combined making a far less appealing sum of values.
 

bigking777

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What do you think Love's value is right now?
Either positive or negative.
I'm guessing his value right now is neutral. He wouldn't bring back anything valuable in a trade. But I don't think he is negative value.

If Love plays 60-65 games this season and averages 20-10, I think he is extremely valuable to a contender.
 

benchplayer

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Here's a question, What if garland has a trae young/luka type of year and looks like a future star and sexton is looking pretty good himself. do you trade love, or keep him and try to win?
 

Randolphkeys

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Here's a question, What if garland has a trae young/luka type of year and looks like a future star and sexton is looking pretty good himself. do you trade love, or keep him and try to win?
That sounds like the 2011 Golden State Warriors. Steph, Monta Ellis, and David Lee looked like they had something really good going... but they owed their first rounder to Utah if it was outside of the top eight and the Ellis/Curry back court was too small to defend. So, they moved Ellis and Udoh for Bogut and Stephen Jackson... knowing neither Bogut or Captain Jack would play that year. They tanked a third of the season playing nobodies with rookie Klay, secured Harrison Barnes and Draymond in the draft, and started kicking ass by 2013.

So in my view, it's never too early to see the young players start to mature and look like they belong. Teams can get creative at the end of the season to save a draft pick.
 

2 For The Brew

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If Kevin is playing really well at the deadline then there are teams in the hunt for the title this year that might look at him as the final piece. Even the teams with "no assets" have unprotected picks a few years down the road.

I'd have no problem taking multiple unprotected or very lightly protected picks as late as 2024-26. Those are assets, so even if we decide in a couple of years that we don't want to wait that long -- other teams would view those picks as assets (i'e teams entering complete rebuilding mode).
 

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