Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[WorldFreeB]

Love has to have set a world record for the amount of times an athlete has been speculated to be traded since he’s been a Cavalier.

Wait till the trading deadline oh man.

 

[cavsfever]

I have no idea what this website is, but they propose this trade:

5 NBA Trades We Need to See This Season

From Kevin Love to D'Angelo Russell, the Complex Sports team picked out five NBA trades that we need to see happen this season.

www.complex.com

Seems interesting, although I don't know much about Little other than he underwhelmed in college.

Little has underwhelmed in the NBA too, he can’t get off the bench.

This is basically Love for Anfernee Simons, cap relief, and a late first rounder. Not a very good haul, unless you think a lot of Simons

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

So should we un-retire Nate Thurmond?

By the end of the this season (if he is healthy) Tristan will be within striking distance of the all-time offensive rebound leader in Cavs history. If they do re-sign him, he will likely pass big Z next year as the Cavs all time offensive rebound leader. He will also likely pass Z in defensive rebounds as well. As he does that, he will pass Brad Daugherty in total rebounds.

If he stays fairly healthy and if he is signed to an extension (two big ifs), Tristan Thompson has a good chance of becoming the top rebounding center in Cavaliers history next year before his 30th birthday.

Oh and he also would likely pass LeBron James to become the top rebounder in Cavs history next year as well.

Tristan is already second in Cavs history when it comes to rebounds per game, only behind Daugherty. Had Daugherty had a healthy, longer career his likely would be way ahead of everyone else in Cavs history in the category.

So if Tristan becomes the top offensive, defensive, and total rebounds leader in Cavs history, he should not get his number retired? How many second chance points had he gotten the club over the years with his prowess on the offensive glass?

Thurmond's jersey is an anomoly and really shouldn't have been retired.

I agree with you about TT's jersey if he re-signs and plays out another contract. Otherwise no.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Thurmond's jersey is an anomoly and really shouldn't have been retired.

I agree with you about TT's jersey if he re-signs and plays out another contract. Otherwise no.

That's fair. I think if he remains and becomes the top rebounder in Cavs history then it's a no-brainer.

 

[Stark]

Cavaliers Top-12 All-Time Players (According to WS)

1. LeBron James, 154.1
2. Mark Price, 65.4
3. Brad Daugherty, 65.2
4. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, 63.4
5. Hot Rod Williams, 58.3
6. Larry Nance, 56.0
7. Anderson Varejao, 45.7
8. Tristan Thompson, 41.3
9. Kyrie Irving, 40.4
10. Terrell Brandon, 36.9
11. Austin Carr, 33.3
12. Kevin Love, 32.2

Who deserves to have their number retired out of that bunch? I'm extremely stingy on things like retired numbers, something that will stand until the end of the history of this franchise... I'd honestly say I would only retire the numbers of LeBron, Price, Daugherty, and Z as of right now. I'm souring more and more on Kyrie, and while Love and TT have been great players for us, I pretty much need both of them to stay here and rack up numbers for the rest of their careers. Love has been really good and put up arguably some of the best big man seasons in team history, but at the same time, he's only played 70+ games twice in five full seasons for us thus far.

 

[bboy]

what is a realistic return for Love in a trade? He's still a good player but I dont think the Cavs will get that much back...picks and expirings?

 

[raiders91sc]

So should we un-retire Nate Thurmond?

By the end of the this season (if he is healthy) Tristan will be within striking distance of the all-time offensive rebound leader in Cavs history. If they do re-sign him, he will likely pass big Z next year as the Cavs all time offensive rebound leader. He will also likely pass Z in defensive rebounds as well. As he does that, he will pass Brad Daugherty in total rebounds.

If he stays fairly healthy and if he is signed to an extension (two big ifs), Tristan Thompson has a good chance of becoming the top rebounding center in Cavaliers history next year before his 30th birthday.

Oh and he also would likely pass LeBron James to become the top rebounder in Cavs history next year as well.

Tristan is already second in Cavs history when it comes to rebounds per game, only behind Daugherty. Had Daugherty had a healthy, longer career his likely would be way ahead of everyone else in Cavs history in the category.

So if Tristan becomes the top offensive, defensive, and total rebounds leader in Cavs history, he should not get his number retired? How many second chance points had he gotten the club over the years with his prowess on the offensive glass?

Tristan will have his jersey in the rafters. And I would not be surprised if we sign him for 3-4 more years and he ends up 1000+ rebounds ahead of LeBron on the all-time list for the Cavs.

we are talking about a guy with a career average of 9 points and 8 rebounds. He has played 8 years and if played another 8 years he might make the top 50 in career rebounds in the NBA. Cavs retiring his jersey would be like the Heat retiring Udonis Haslem. To each his own but I wouldn't retire a role players jersey.

 

[raiders91sc]

Cavaliers Top-12 All-Time Players (According to WS)

1. LeBron James, 154.1
2. Mark Price, 65.4
3. Brad Daugherty, 65.2
4. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, 63.4
5. Hot Rod Williams, 58.3
6. Larry Nance, 56.0
7. Anderson Varejao, 45.7
8. Tristan Thompson, 41.3
9. Kyrie Irving, 40.4
10. Terrell Brandon, 36.9
11. Austin Carr, 33.3
12. Kevin Love, 32.2

Who deserves to have their number retired out of that bunch? I'm extremely stingy on things like retired numbers, something that will stand until the end of the history of this franchise... I'd honestly say I would only retire the numbers of LeBron, Price, Daugherty, and Z as of right now. I'm souring more and more on Kyrie, and while Love and TT have been great players for us, I pretty much need both of them to stay here and rack up numbers for the rest of their careers. Love has been really good and put up arguably some of the best big man seasons in team history, but at the same time, he's only played 70+ games twice in five full seasons for us thus far.

who is WS?

 

[Stark]

who is WS?

The win-share stat.

"WS is short for win shares, which is a stat estimating how many wins a player is responsible for on his team. Usually, this number is calculated using an entire season's worth of games for a team. In each win for that season, the amount each player was responsible for is set aside using other advanced metrics."

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

we are talking about a guy with a career average of 9 points and 8 rebounds. He has played 8 years and if played another 8 years he might make the top 50 in career rebounds in the NBA. Cavs retiring his jersey would be like the Heat retiring Udonis Haslem. To each his own but I wouldn't retire a role players jersey.

He isn't getting retired for his overall contribution to the NBA. He would get retired for his contribution to the Cavs. Also his per game average is closer to 9 than it is to 8.

If he continues to play for the Cavs after this year it is highly likely he is the Cavs all-time leader in rebounds. It's not about his relation to the NBA. Lower turnover average and foul rate than Big Z with similar career averages on minutes.

As for the scoring, he was a double digit scorer in the two years before LeBron's return. He became a double digit scorer again once LeBron left. The scoring average is depressed because of who he played with. He became the fifth option on the offense. He also gave us more second chance opportunities than any other Cav in history.

I could see excluding him if he walks after this year. If he plays for 4 more years in Cleveland and becomes the top Cavalier rebounder ever then he is a shoe in for a jersey retirement.

 

[NMCav]

what is a realistic return for Love in a trade? He's still a good player but I dont think the Cavs will get that much back...picks and expirings?

Unless he wants out we shouldn't trade him. Hes a great vet to teach the kids and won't hurt the tanking too much. And by the third year of his contract it will be great value. This season Kevin Love is the 22nd highest paid player in the NBA. Blake Griffin who is similar value to KLove but who's game is more predicated on athleticism is making 34 Million and is the 8th highest paid player in the league. By his 3rd year of the contract not factoring in future maxes and FA signings by teams hes the 28th highest paid player. Likely to fall to 35ish range over the next 3 years of deals with increase in salary cap.

 

[SanduskyCav]

Cavaliers Top-12 All-Time Players (According to WS)

1. LeBron James, 154.1
2. Mark Price, 65.4
3. Brad Daugherty, 65.2
4. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, 63.4
5. Hot Rod Williams, 58.3
6. Larry Nance, 56.0
7. Anderson Varejao, 45.7
8. Tristan Thompson, 41.3
9. Kyrie Irving, 40.4
10. Terrell Brandon, 36.9
11. Austin Carr, 33.3
12. Kevin Love, 32.2

Who deserves to have their number retired out of that bunch? I'm extremely stingy on things like retired numbers, something that will stand until the end of the history of this franchise... I'd honestly say I would only retire the numbers of LeBron, Price, Daugherty, and Z as of right now. I'm souring more and more on Kyrie, and while Love and TT have been great players for us, I pretty much need both of them to stay here and rack up numbers for the rest of their careers. Love has been really good and put up arguably some of the best big man seasons in team history, but at the same time, he's only played 70+ games twice in five full seasons for us thus far.

I’m not a stats guy, nor am I a Love guy...but if WS says TT is a better Cav then Love and Kyrie then it’s a stupid stat.

 

[NMCav]

I’m not a stats guy, nor am I a Love guy...but if WS says TT is a better Cav then Love and Kyrie then it’s a stupid stat.

Longevity. TT has been here longer then KLove and stayed longer then Kyrie. Its not a per season thing its a life time thing. So yes TT has more win shares then Kyrie and KLove but its not because of actual production its because of longevity.

 

[Stark]

I’m not a stats guy, nor am I a Love guy...but if WS says TT is a better Cav then Love and Kyrie then it’s a stupid stat.

Longevity with a team to rack up WS plays a lot into it. TT was an iron-man in his early seasons, while Kyrie and Love both were rather injury prone in their Cleveland tenures.

Thompson has played 189 more games with Cleveland than Kyrie and he's marginally ahead of him. He's played 269 more games than K-Love, which plays a ton into it.

If you want true flat out impact when they were playing in Cleveland, regardless of how long they stayed (Kyrie) or how often they missed time for injury (Kyrie/Love/Z/etc.), then WS/48 is a better metric to use.

1. LeBron - .223
2. Nance - .180
3. Price - .173
4. K-Love - .165
5. Daugherty - .156
6. Kyrie - .149
7. Varejao - .149
8. Brandon - .145
9. Big Z - .139
10. Hot Rod - .135
11. Thompson - .125
12. Carr - .084

Fun fact - Matthew Dellavedova's WS/48 (.073) is only marginally worse than Bingo Smith (.076).

 

[NMCav]

Longevity with a team to rack up WS plays a lot into it. TT was an iron-man in his early seasons, while Kyrie and Love both were rather injury prone in their Cleveland tenures.

Thompson has played 189 more games with Cleveland than Kyrie and he's marginally ahead of him. He's played 269 more games than K-Love, which plays a ton into it.

If you want true flat out impact when they were playing in Cleveland, regardless of how long they stayed (Kyrie) or how often they missed time for injury (Kyrie/Love/Z/etc.), then WS/48 is a better metric to use.

1. LeBron - .223
2. Nance - .180
3. Price - .173
4. K-Love - .165
5. Daugherty - .156
6. Kyrie - .149
7. Varejao - .149
8. Brandon - .145
9. Big Z - .139
10. Hot Rod - .135
11. Thompson - .125
12. Carr - .084

Fun fact - Matthew Dellavedova's WS/48 (.073) is only marginally worse than Bingo Smith (.076).

Kind of shocking to me that KLove is higher then Kyrie. No one can deny his first so many years here KLove was used horribly. Also surprised Kyrie is tied with Varejao. How much does rebounding factor into this?