Kevin Love

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Randolphkeys

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Keys how check you still defend an extension for one of the most injury prone players in this league?

Other plays got silly extensions too but this has been awful.

It's absurdly easy to defend.

I display facts about how well he has played when healthy, feature the other uses of cap space the franchise used at the same time like Brandon Knight and John Henson, and focus the conversation away from made up shit.
 
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It's absurdly easy to defend.

I display facts about how well he has played when healthy, feature the other uses of cap space the franchise used at the same time like Brandon Knight and John Henson, and focus the conversation away from made up shit.
We could have signed the next Larry Hughes instead of signing Kev.
 

Randolphkeys

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We could have signed the next Larry Hughes instead of signing Kev.

Or use cap space to acquire somebody younger who went to a few All Star games and almost always leads the league in rebounding.

...oh wait, the Cavs did get him and fans hate him even more than Love. Bad example, I guess.
 

Blazie

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Or use cap space to acquire somebody younger who went to a few All Star games and almost always leads the league in rebounding.

...oh wait, the Cavs did get him and fans hate him even more than Love. Bad example, I guess.
Yeah I guess I go back and forth on who I'm the most disappointed with, between Love and Drummond... but then I remember only one of them gave us a championship.

So...
 

weepinwillow

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Yeah, there are a lot of reasons this post is awful. Love was a 29 year old All Star, the Cavs would go on to pursue exactly zero free agents in the coming years... I get it that people are frustrated with his injury but we live in a reality where the Horford, Batum, Morris and Wiggins extensions all exis
But who were they competing against on that contract? And was the threat of Love walking out really a threat? Pointing to bad decisions by other franchises doesn't excuse the bad decision by the one I follow, imo.
The only part I think is missed on contract extensions and small market teams is you need control as a small market team, you need the ability to trade the guy. But, because of that reality, you need to identify what assets in the form of contracts have diminishing returns and what one's won't lose as much value. I'll concede to the Cavs that the Love contract was a tightrope for them w/how Irving left and how Lebron left (again, like they knew was going to happen), but the years on the deal really sunk the asset value of his contract. And I don't think it would have been particularly clairvoyant to see that would be the case prior to offering the deal to him.
 

Randolphkeys

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But who were they competing against on that contract? And was the threat of Love walking out really a threat? Pointing to bad decisions by other franchises doesn't excuse the bad decision by the one I follow, imo.
The only part I think is missed on contract extensions and small market teams is you need control as a small market team, you need the ability to trade the guy. But, because of that reality, you need to identify what assets in the form of contracts have diminishing returns and what one's won't lose as much value. I'll concede to the Cavs that the Love contract was a tightrope for them w/how Irving left and how Lebron left (again, like they knew was going to happen), but the years on the deal really sunk the asset value of his contract. And I don't think it would have been particularly clairvoyant to see that would be the case prior to offering the deal to him.

So you have chosen to use a lack of evidence as your evidence. Do we know the exact offers Love would have attracted on the open market?

Nope.

However, we do know that a 29 year old who is coming fresh off NBA finals appearances and the All Star game is going to attract large contract offers.

Draymond Green was two years removed from an All Star game and roughly the same age when he resigned with the Dubs for a 4 year $100 million extension. That's a discount to stay with the Splash Brothers.

Gordon Hayward hasn't been to an All Star game in four seasons, and he was roughly the same age as Love this past off-season. He signed with Charlotte for 4 years and $128 million.

So if you are looking for evidence Love signed at a reasonable amount, it is very important to look towards other teams for context.
 

weepinwillow

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So you have chosen to use a lack of evidence as your evidence. Do we know the exact offers Love would have attracted on the open market?

Nope.

However, we do know that a 29 year old who is coming fresh off NBA finals appearances and the All Star game is going to attract large contract offers.

Draymond Green was two years removed from an All Star game and roughly the same age when he resigned with the Dubs for a 4 year $100 million extension. That's a discount to stay with the Splash Brothers.

Gordon Hayward hasn't been to an All Star game in four seasons, and he was roughly the same age as Love this past off-season. He signed with Charlotte for 4 years and $128 million.

So if you are looking for evidence Love signed at a reasonable amount, it is very important to look towards other teams for context.
No I'm using: would it have mattered if Kevin walked for the Cavs? Would they have been x amount worse the last few seasons w/o Love on the roster?
I'm also using the, "the Cavs knew his market pretty well since he'd been rumored in trade talks since 2014" angle. It's not that maybe Love would have signed for a reasonable amount, it's that the Cavs didn't really need him on a max deal, at least for max years.
They are probably stuck now, in most cases they'd have to include a more enticing piece to off load the deal. Best hope is for him to find his health and contribute, he's a better fit than Andre with this group, and the Cavs could use his shooting, but he's never on the floor.
I guess your point is Love was a former AS and the Cavs needed to pony up to keep him. I agree.
My point is I don't think they needed to actually keep him at terms that didn't work at least as far as number of years.
 

Randolphkeys

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No I'm using: would it have mattered if Kevin walked for the Cavs? Would they have been x amount worse the last few seasons w/o Love on the roster?
I'm also using the, "the Cavs knew his market pretty well since he'd been rumored in trade talks since 2014" angle. It's not that maybe Love would have signed for a reasonable amount, it's that the Cavs didn't really need him on a max deal, at least for max years.
They are probably stuck now, in most cases they'd have to include a more enticing piece to off load the deal. Best hope is for him to find his health and contribute, he's a better fit than Andre with this group, and the Cavs could use his shooting, but he's never on the floor.
I guess your point is Love was a former AS and the Cavs needed to pony up to keep him. I agree.
My point is I don't think they needed to actually keep him at terms that didn't work at least as far as number of years.

We have talked hoops for a long time and I'm not trying to strawman your point at all. As a poster you have a lot of respect in my book.

I bolded what I believe you put forth as your main thesis. Looks like you agree Love was worth $30 million a year at that time, but you felt the Cavs should have pushed hard for a three year deal instead of a 4 year contract, correct?

I can agree with you that the fourth year is completely in Love's benefit, not the Cavs... but I still think another team would have offered that fourth year, making it a moot point.

What people really hate about the Love contract was that the Cavs didn't get a full season out of him in that first age 29 season. That was the real value year of the contract and he went from dinged up to shelved in order to tank.

Last season was exactly what I expected from Love, just not what I expected from the league. In hindsight, it looks on the surface like Love didn't play much. It's important to remember he took some load management games before anybody could have imagined the COVID shutdown, and further who would have predicted the Cavs wouldn't be invited to finish the season?

The calf injury this season sucks. I'm hoping to see what this team can do when he is back. The team went from a playoff contestant to birdshit when Nance got hurt and Lamar Stephens became a vital part of the rotation at PF.

Love is set up to fit really well in about a week.
 

The Koby Altman Apologist

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What people really hate about the Love contract was that the Cavs didn't get a full season out of him in that first age 29 season. That was the real value year of the contract and he went from dinged up to shelved in order to tank.
Kevin Love actually turned 30 right after he signed that extension. His birthday is September 7, 1988 and he agreed to terms to re-sign for $120 million on July 24, 2018. So that was technically his age 30 season.
 

Rich

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What you guys think we need from Kevin Love and what he may be able to provide are all fantasy.

Because right up there is the Kevin Love you're gonna keep getting. Injured, injured, and injured some more.

Lord help us we need to find some way to free up that cap space. That 30 million a year is just hurling itself into the void.

We talk about the problems with the roster and the players and how they fit....and look man. One MAJOR problem is 30 million dollars of our salary cap allotment is sitting on the bench every night.
 

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Cavs did do right by him, but Kevin is being a pussy. Who cares about wins and losses right now, this team needs his so called leadership, championship pedigree, and knowledge while on the court.
 

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