Koby Altman nailed, then failed to take breathalyzer…

[Dr No]

If I’m Dan I’m giving Koby this off-season to tweak the roster and hopefully pick in the top 5. We desperately need a 3 who can get buckets, hoping for Kuminga. I’m totally on board with this roster going into next year.
Garland
Okoro
Kuminga
Love
Allen

Sexton
Windler
Prince
Nance
Free agents at C and PG
Stevens
Wade.

I think I’d try and trade Prince for a tall guard who can shoot.

 

["MVP"]

Out of curiosity I compared the Cavs teams with the teams you listed:

Atlanta - 23rd ranked defense | 10th ranked offense | 21st ranked 3pt% | 3rd Opp 3pt%
Dallas - 26th ranked defense | 9th ranked offense | 25th ranked 3pt% | 18th Opp 3pt%
Sacramento - 30th ranked defense | 12th ranked offense | 14th ranked 3pt% | 29th Opp 3pt%
Oklahoma City - 14th ranked defense | 29th ranked offense | 27th ranked 3pt% | 5th Opp 3pt%
New Orleans - 29th ranked defense | 8th ranked offense | 15th ranked 3pt% | 28th Opp 3pt%

Cleveland - 25th ranked defense | 30th ranked offense | 30th 3pt% | 30th Opp 3pt%

I can make the case that Griffin might get fired before Koby does. Had the chance to draft Hunter but opted to trade the 4th pick and got Jaxson Hayes with the 8th pick, who is averaging 12.1 mpg which is less than his 16.9 mpg in his rookie season. Doubled down on horrible fits with Zion and traded for Steven Adams. With Giannis signing a long-term deal, the Jrue Holiday deal looks meh in hindsight. I guess he can keep the "trade a star player" carousel going and trade Ingram at a premium so we'll see.

The Kings had a chance to pair Fox with Doncic and blew it. Does that pairing work? I don't know but they could've traded Fox away for pieces that fit. Walton is probably getting fired very soon. Dallas didn't know that Seth Curry was the reason they had the greatest offense in history last year lol.

Anyway, you're 100% right, winning in this league is hard despite the narrative of it "just taking one guy." It takes top end talent and a competent FO building around said talent and even then a little luck.

Based on those numbers, Koby hasn't nailed the rebuild because we're inefficient everywhere mainly due to talent disparity as well as injuries and have been unlucky in the last two lotto's.

Griff has done just a brutal job in NO, but seems to be above criticism from the media because he made one good trade in Cleveland and had the greatest player in NBA history carry us to a championship. Besides making the obvious AD trade and selecting the consensus player in Zion:

• Trading 4 for 10/17/35 looks like an absolute disaster. Hunter looks like a very good NBA wing. Even Garland I think would fit next to Zion & Ingram like a glove.
• Trading for and extending Adams was just bizarre. Zion is so dominant in the paint. Any middle school basketball coach could tell you to surround him with shooters.
• I realize Lonzo & Bledsoe are just placeholder guards, but that's the worst shooting backcourt in the league. Not something you want in the modern NBA, but especially something you don't want when your two stars are so good in the paint.

Great, he's gonna have a ton of picks in the 20-30 range from the Bucks and Lakers over the next handful of years. But outside of Joe Harris, who he later cut, he doesn't exactly have a strong track record of being able to find talent. I don't think David Kahn or Chris Grant could have constructed a worse fitting team around Zion & Ingram.

Cavs have not had any lottery luck over the last few years, which hurts any rebuild. But overall, I think Koby and crew have done well with what they've had.

 

[Benway]

We tried "Forwardless" basketball for a month, it just didn't work out. Kind of a disaster, really.

 

[Cavatt]

Koby has an eye for talent or at least his team does.

 

[avs2000]

Gilbert isn’t letting his puppet go

and he should'nt.
I think Koby has done a good job so far.

He was put in a terrible spot with Kyrie

He has added Nance, Sexton was a great pick at 8 Jury out on Garland but certainly not a bust. Okoro is only 19 and has upside.
Windler appears the same. Steven's is looking like a good pick-up. Making the move for Allen and Prince was great.
Drummond deal was worth a shot

Flip side, Love deal was perplexing.

Hopefully we get something for drummond
Prince will have trade value next year(or this)
McGee has trade value this deadline(we are going to have to find a back-up center)
Dotson might get us a second round this year from a contender

Looks like another lottery which I am fine with. Another top 5 pick in a deep draft would be great, even better if we can get top 3
This franchise needs stability. Not a huge fan but JBB needs to stay. Koby certainly does






This team

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I started out as a huge fan of Koby, but I am quickly loosing faith. I met him a few years ago and was impressed with his basketball IQ.
But recently it looks like the Cavs just fall into deals that pop up and don't have a long term plan.

 

[weepinwillow]

I started out as a huge fan of Koby, but I am quickly loosing faith. I met him a few years ago and was impressed with his basketball IQ.
But recently it looks like the Cavs just fall into deals that pop up and don't have a long term plan.

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
I think Bob Dylan said that, or maybe it was Gandhi.
Anyway, the plan is happening as it was foretold. Put the best version of yourself on the floor that you can and try to hit on your draft picks.
Hard to have an obvious plan when you don't have an obvious player to build around. The last time they tried to do this without Lebron, they probably waited too long on Waiters (actually there's no "probably" about it). To that end, Cavs really need to decide if it's Sexton or Garland and trade one of them to compliment the other accordingly.
You can make the case for either, and you could make the case for neither.
The kind of player I'd go after if I was keeping Collin would be a Kyle Anderson type or Lonzo Ball.
If I'm keeping Garland, I'd be looking for a more dynamic scoring option who can play some defense at the 2.
Neither G looks like a #1 or #2 guy on a title team. Collin looks like he will have a role on a playoff team, Garland has to shore up a ton of things but he has some of the skill sets that you could see translating into a starting caliber PG.
The defense though.. man, 2 points away from giving Red Velvet a season high!!

 

[Cassity14]

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
I think Bob Dylan said that, or maybe it was Gandhi.
Anyway, the plan is happening as it was foretold. Put the best version of yourself on the floor that you can and try to hit on your draft picks.
Hard to have an obvious plan when you don't have an obvious player to build around. The last time they tried to do this without Lebron, they probably waited too long on Waiters (actually there's no "probably" about it). To that end, Cavs really need to decide if it's Sexton or Garland and trade one of them to compliment the other accordingly.
You can make the case for either, and you could make the case for neither.
The kind of player I'd go after if I was keeping Collin would be a Kyle Anderson type or Lonzo Ball.
If I'm keeping Garland, I'd be looking for a more dynamic scoring option who can play some defense at the 2.
Neither G looks like a #1 or #2 guy on a title team. Collin looks like he will have a role on a playoff team, Garland has to shore up a ton of things but he has some of the skill sets that you could see translating into a starting caliber PG.
The defense though.. man, 2 points away from giving Red Velvet a season high!!

I like this conversation, and the type of player you would get to compliment whichever stays long term has to have some impact on a potential future decision.

This was a common point with Tristan Thompson earlier in his career when he simply couldn't be a starting NBA center. Luckily for the Cavs and us, the league shifted into a mold that allowed him to do just that. At that time, the conversation was about how difficult it was to find a center to compliment Thompson's one-dimensional offensive game and lack of rim protection and that although Thompson had valuable skills, building a roster from the ground up with that type of power forward may not be worth the trouble, or feasible for the Cavs.

I see the same thing brewing here with Sexton. The type of players a team needs if it's going to start Collin Sexton at the 2, in order to be a really good team, are difficult to find. We're talking about getting both length AND ball distribution at the 1 and 3 spots. That's not easy to find. It was there with Haliburton last year as far as a guard goes, and I see it with Cunningham this year in a forward, but those archetypes aren't readily-available across the league, and when they are, they're going to come at a premium.

Garland, meanwhile, is pretty stock-standard when it comes to a point guard, and thus, is easier to fit into team composition. He also doesn't look as dynamic as Sexton as of right now.

I'm not going to fault the FO for the Garland pick because Sexton showed no reason to commit to drafting for fit alongside him as a rookie, and I'm not advocating for breaking up the pairing yet because I don't think there's enough data to make a confident, informed decision. However, I do think these are things to keep an eye on.

 

[sailfish]

I started out as a huge fan of Koby, but I am quickly loosing faith. I met him a few years ago and was impressed with his basketball IQ.
But recently it looks like the Cavs just fall into deals that pop up and don't have a long term plan.

I still think they’re on the right path. A rebuilding team has to be in asset accumulation mode. Players that I believe will be here for the duration: Sexton, Okoro, & Jarrett Allen. Possibly Larry Nance & Windler. Anyone else is expendable.

It would be nice to add a big point guard, like a Cade Cunningham or Jalen Suggs, to play beside Sexton.

 

[daytripper]

Koby has been opportunistic and acquired both Jarrett Allen and the draft pick that became Windler because he was able to capitalize on the fact that the Houston ownership is cheap.

Gilbert's pocketbook also allowed him to take risks on both KPJ and Drummond. As a midwest smaller market they will have to take some risks. The Love extension doesn't look great but all in all I believe Gilbert is the one who pushed for that back in 2018 after Lebron left again.

As for the draft picks there haven't been any Anthony Bennett type failures. It's not like the Cavs have had a top 3 pick. Sure the fits may not be perfect but at this point of a rebuild it's more about drafting BPA over fit. Overall I think Koby has done a decent job. It's probably too early to judge it in wins and losses at this point. I'm really excited to see who they are in a position to draft this offseason too.

 

[buzzdog]

Drummond simply HAD to be a DG decision, right? Detroit, asses in the seats, short term flier kind of a move. Not something Koby would do on his own.

 

[inliner311]

Sure the fits may not be perfect but at this point of a rebuild it's more about drafting BPA over fit.

I think BPA over fit is a good strategy but I think you have to take fit into account at least alittle bit. Im not sure Koby did when drafting Garland and Okoro. Drafting 3 guards in 3 years but none of them seem to fit well together just doesn't seem like great strategy.

 

[Man Called X]

Drummond simply HAD to be a DG decision, right? Detroit, asses in the seats, short term flier kind of a move. Not something Koby would do on his own.

The Drummond rental was an experiment to see how our two small guards would work with a rim protector. The thought at the time was if they selected Wiseman in the draft. Knowing that they've targeted Allen for a while, I'm beginning to wonder if he wasn't the plan all along.

 

[Cassity14]

I think BPA over fit is a good strategy but I think you have to take fit into account at least alittle bit. Im not sure Koby did when drafting Garland and Okoro. Drafting 3 guards in 3 years but none of them seem to fit well together just doesn't seem like great strategy.

Have we seen or heard anything to confirm that the Cavs, organizationally, view Okoro as a guard? I've legitimately only seen that on this site.

Coming off of Sexton's rookie year, you really think fit should have been taken into account? You think he demonstrated enough to be viewed as a foundational piece? I sure didn't, and I don't think the Cavs at that point did either.

 

[sailfish]

Have we seen or heard anything to confirm that the Cavs, organizationally, view Okoro as a guard? I've legitimately only seen that on this site.

Coming off of Sexton's rookie year, you really think fit should have been taken into account? You think he demonstrated enough to be viewed as a foundational piece? I sure didn't, and I don't think the Cavs at that point did either.

I think his strength and physique make him a natural fit as a small forward. I thing we have to be careful not to judge too much from this season as all of these rookies were pretty much thrown to the wolves, without the benefit of a summer and with a shortened training camp