Koby Altman

[cabs]

On paper Hood was a shooter. George Hill was a shooter. Clarkson was acquired to be a bench scorer on what had been a lethargic bench. Nance was brought in to be a energy big. Hill and Nance were fine during the playoff run that year. Clarkson sucked and Hood forgot how to shoot. I fail to see how any of those were bad "fits". Not everyone needs to shoot next to Bron. Lakers play Javale and Dwight. No one available at the deadline that year gets us over GS. Guess what we still made the finals that year.

Hill was ok. Hood was not a spot up shooter. Nance is a 6'6 PF that cant shoot.. not a great fit with LeBron. Very bad fits majority of them. Not to mention a washed Wade, Rose and Crowder. I'm not out here saying Lakers have got it right so don't really see your point, they rely heavily on Davis and LeBron. Green has seemed to fit in well (wow maybe because he is a shooter.. who would have thought). The lakers are not as good as our 2015-17 cavs.

 

[NMCav]

Hill was ok. Hood was not a spot up shooter. Nance is a 6'6 PF that cant shoot.. not a great fit with LeBron. Very bad fits majority of them. Not to mention a washed Wade, Rose and Crowder. I'm not out here saying Lakers have got it right so don't really see your point, they rely heavily on Davis and LeBron. Green has seemed to fit in well (wow maybe because he is a shooter.. who would have thought). The lakers are not as good as our 2015-17 cavs.

Nance wasn't acquired to play many minutes with Bron. He was brought in to provide energy behind TT and KLove. He played 20 MPG. We had no one besides Bron who could create their own shot that year Rose was toast, Wade was done, Crowder was washed. I'm not saying the Kyrie trade was good. I'm not even saying the Lakers trade worked out. But on paper Hood was a rising shooter who in theory was suppose to thrive next to Bron. Hill was a very good spot shooter. Dumbest thing was giving the Lakers a first while they cleared max cap space for Bron though.

 

[cabs]

Nance wasn't acquired to play many minutes with Bron. He was brought in to provide energy behind TT and KLove. He played 20 MPG. We had no one besides Bron who could create their own shot that year Rose was toast, Wade was done, Crowder was washed. I'm not saying the Kyrie trade was good. I'm not even saying the Lakers trade worked out. But on paper Hood was a rising shooter who in theory was suppose to thrive next to Bron. Hill was a very good spot shooter. Dumbest thing was giving the Lakers a first while they cleared max cap space for Bron though.

They were bad fits, we have proof of that... I’m not sure why you’re arguing it. We have clear proof just by how little they all played in the playoffs lol

 

[cavsfever]

On paper Hood was a shooter. George Hill was a shooter. Clarkson was acquired to be a bench scorer on what had been a lethargic bench. Nance was brought in to be a energy big. Hill and Nance were fine during the playoff run that year. Clarkson sucked and Hood forgot how to shoot. I fail to see how any of those were bad "fits". Not everyone needs to shoot next to Bron. Lakers play Javale and Dwight. No one available at the deadline that year gets us over GS. Guess what we still made the finals that year.

LOL “on paper”

Every single one of those guys was a bad fit. Did you not watch the 2018 playoffs?

In fairness after the Kyrie trade it was a pretty impossible situation.

Koby hasn’t impressed me much so far but it’s true he came into a bad situation

 

[NMCav]

LOL “on paper”

Every single one of those guys was a bad fit. Did you not watch the 2018 playoffs?

In fairness after the Kyrie trade it was a pretty impossible situation.

Koby hasn’t impressed me much so far but it’s true he came into a bad situation

George Hill was fine. Rodney Hood was ass. Nance was an okay guy in his role which was backing up TT. Clarkson is terrible but most microwave scorers who can't hit threes are in the playoffs. The day the trades happened that year everyone was saying how good they were.

Hindsight is 20-20. I'm not saying they were good trades. But to discount him for 3 trades in an impossible situation for any GM is moronic. He had to try to win and keep the future alive at the same time. We also don't know what all was available. Biggest name that deadline was DeAndre Jordan's corpse for the Nets pick. Do you really think his corpse would have put us over the top.

The trades also saved the Locker room. He had to get rid of the players cause the Locker room was shot at that point. Kyrie fucked that whole season up being a bitch. No one else. He did the best he could in a impossible situation.

 

[Jordan]

Guys that could shoot for one, Griffin did it... Altman couldn’t. Put shooters around LeBron, it worked for so long no need to change it and put players like Clarkson, Nance and Hood!
We have no idea how we have drafted under Koby so far, there is nothing Sexton or Garland are showing that should make us rush an extension for him. Just a bad decision.
Stability is great, but only if you have something worth investing in which we have no idea we do and evidence thus far suggests probably not.

What available shooters would you have traded for? Hill is a career 38% three-point shooter who was shooting over 50% on open threes. Altman extended Kyle Korver. Clarkson and Hood forgot how to play during the playoffs, on paper that were better shooters than who they were replacing.

Altman’s contract would have been up next year. Who were you going to sign to replace him? And who would be running the search?

 

[cabs]

What available shooters would you have traded for? Hill is a career 38% three-point shooter who was shooting over 50% on open threes. Altman extended Kyle Korver. Clarkson and Hood forgot how to play during the playoffs, on paper that were better shooters than who they were replacing.

Altman’s contract would have been up next year. Who were you going to sign to replace him? And who would be running the search?

I knew you were going to ask this but I still couldn’t bother research it lol not sure, can’t remember. Surely there would have been a way to get some, I doubt it’s that hard. Griffen found a way even though you could argue he overpaid for some of the shooters he got. The only one I will give him credit for is turning shumpert into Hill.

Whoever would be running the search would be the same guy that signed Altman to an extension one would assume. Obviously I would have no idea on candidates, it’s very much like head coaches. Can pluck them out of so many different places. No need to rush it though. I’m also not saying we need to replace him right now if you’re trying to twist what I am saying, I’m saying we didn’t need to sign him to a ‘long term’ contract based off of what? Trading for late firsts? At least see how the Sexton, Garland + deals for our expirings etc go this year before sealing our fate to this guy

 

[Benway]

At least see how the Sexton, Garland + deals for our expirings etc go this year before sealing our fate to this guy

Please consider that he can be replaced at any time if deemed advantageous. The team's commitment is purely financial and has no impact on the salary cap. This stability is greatly to the advantage of ownership.

 

[AllforOne]

I think Altman has done a good job and is deserving of this extension.

His good moves have included:
- Hiring Beilein. We've seen more player development in five games under Beilein than we did for ... oh, the past 20 years or so.
- Drafting Sexton. Collin is not a complete player, but he can sure fill it up. He's better than pretty much anybody else who was available at 8 (SGA fans: your boy made it clear he didn't want to come here, so don't go there).
- Drafting Porter. KPJ clearly has a lot of talent; and while there may be some immaturity, every 19-year-old has some immaturity. Kudos to Koby for not just accepting the "he's toxic" narrative, and determining that Porter is actually a good kid who just needed more structure and support.
- Signing Love, Osman, and Nance to extensions that actually decrease in value --trading more money up front in exchange for more cost containment in 3-4 years.
- The in-season deals for Hill/Nance/Clarkson/Hood in 2018. No, they didn't work out quite as hoped; but Altman saw that the existing roster needed to be changed, and he shipped out the poisonous ex-Celtics and Shumpert in one fell swoop.
- Managing the salaries to come in just under the luxury tax line last season, and to be on track to do so this season.
- I'd give him props for the Kyrie trade. He was put in a really challenging position just weeks into the job, and he threaded the needle as best he could. (If you'll recall: at the time, most Cavs fans wanted to get Josh Jackson from Phoenix in a Kyrie trade; that would have been a disaster.)

I'm sure some will quibble with what I have listed above, and that's fine. I'd just suggest evaluating Altman's decisions based on what was known at the time, instead of applying 20-20 hindsight a year or two later.

 

[Jordan]

I knew you were going to ask this but I still couldn’t bother research it lol not sure, can’t remember. Surely there would have been a way to get some, I doubt it’s that hard. Griffen found a way even though you could argue he overpaid for some of the shooters he got. The only one I will give him credit for is turning shumpert into Hill.

It clearly is not easy because, as far as I know, none of us schmucks are NBA GMs. It is an incredibly difficult job. You should listen to the podcast "No Dunks" when they interview John Hollinger. It is really enlightening.

Whoever would be running the search would be the same guy that signed Altman to an extension one would assume.

Dan Gilbert - and he is recovering from a stroke.

Obviously I would have no idea on candidates, it’s very much like head coaches. Can pluck them out of so many different places. No need to rush it though. I’m also not saying we need to replace him right now if you’re trying to twist what I am saying, I’m saying we didn’t need to sign him to a ‘long term’ contract based off of what? Trading for late firsts? At least see how the Sexton, Garland + deals for our expirings etc go this year before sealing our fate to this guy

But you're literally just adopting the "it is always prettier on the other side" mentality. To me, it is abundantly clear that Koby has improved every year on the job - he killed it at the trade deadline last year, Sexton looks like his offensive game will make him a long-time rotation player, he drafted three players this year and two have shown some small degree of promise five games in, and he found a way to lure Belein to Cleveland.

I just think people who are mad about this should think about the cost of starting over. Altman may not have been good when he first started, but he is clearly improving, and we have no evidence that there are actually better and more promising candidates on the market.

 

[cabs]

It clearly is not easy because, as far as I know, none of us schmucks are NBA GMs. It is an incredibly difficult job. You should listen to the podcast "No Dunks" when they interview John Hollinger. It is really enlightening.

I've seen this argument a lot, the 'well you're not this so you cant criticise that' argument. We are paying this guy a lot of money to do this incredibly hard job so hopefully we are paying someone that can get it done like many GM's can.

Dan Gilbert - and he is recovering from a stroke.

So waiting for him to recover was probably the way to go..?

But you're literally just adopting the "it is always prettier on the other side" mentality.

errr no, I'm adopting the 'it wouldn't hurt to wait a season before making a long term commitment to someone without a strong track record' mentality

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Guys that could shoot for one, Griffin did it... Altman couldn’t. Put shooters around LeBron, it worked for so long no need to change it....[/QUOTE]

LOL “on paper”
Every single one of those guys was a bad fit. Did you not watch the 2018 playoffs?

Seems to me like you guys may have forgotten what we saw in the 2017 playoffs.

The team Griffin built around LBJ in 2016 was no longer equal to even 2016 GSW by 2017, and significantly behind GSW with KD. Key cogs acquired (and then overpaid) like JR, Shump, and TT all took steps backwards in 2017, and were not the players they had been in 2016. Yet because of Griff's own decisions, we were still stuck with overpaying them. Notice that even in 2017, Griff himself had so tied his own hands with contracts that he couldn't significantly improve the team at the deadline.

It's like Griff built a team for max speed in 2016. When it then spun out and hit a brick wall in 2017, Griff hopped out of the wreck, tossed the keys to Koby, and said "here, your turn to drive."

The team and assets Griff handed Koby in the summer of 2017 wasn't capable of retooling to beat GSW. If he'd thought it was, Griff might have hung around and done it himself.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

errr no, I'm adopting the 'it wouldn't hurt to wait a season before making a long term commitment to someone without a strong track record' mentality

Sure it could hurt. Koby would have been absolutely free to go to another team. Then we'd have had a (very likely) still impaired Dan ttying to convince a top GM candidate to come to a rebuilding franchise, to work for an owner with a reputation for meddling and who has never given a GM a contract extension. And who is recovering from a stroke.

Not exactly the most attractive job opportunity....

And again, you're ignoring the reality that Dan can always fire Koby after this season if he so chooses anyway, and it would only cost him a modest amount of cash.

 

[AllforOne]

I've seen this argument a lot, the 'well you're not this so you cant criticise that' argument. We are paying this guy a lot of money to do this incredibly hard job so hopefully we are paying someone that can get it done like many GM's can.

No, actually, it's quite different. It's the "you're not this, so you have no reason to say 'anybody could have done it'" argument.

You're the one saying that it would have been easy to surround LeBron with different talent. Okay, then, back it up. Don't expect the rest of us to just take you at your word.

So waiting for him to recover was probably the way to go..? ... I'm adopting the 'it wouldn't hurt to wait a season before making a long term commitment to someone without a strong track record' mentality

If you were the Cavs' owner and had adopted that approach, then you would have been left holding your cock in your hand next summer when free-agent Koby accepted another offer from another team. I'm not sure what there is to "wait and see" about when Koby has already run three offseasons here.

TL/DR: Lurk more, post less. Watch & learn.

 

[Rich]

Doesn't this mostly depend on whether or not Sexton and Garland turn out to be good picks? Which we don't know yet?

The Irving trade definitely sucked.

I dunno. I'm not upset and finally showing some stability in the front office, but I also wouldn't have been upset to make him wait a little longer to prove himself.

THat said, the John Beilein hiring looks good, although you get the sense a good deal of that is probably Dan, considering MIchigan and all.