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Kyler Murray Thread

Lee

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We don't know what Kyler for sure weighs or measures at. Wilson's official measurement was also 5'10 5/8". So he wasn't officially 5'11". I'm not here to quibble over 3/8 of an inch but he is shorter than 5'11", which everyone keeps saying. You also don't notice much of a difference if you look at pictures of he and Baker next to each other and no one will ever convince me that an inch or two of eye level matters at all.......to me, it's a cop out to generalize prospects that way....."Oh, that guy was just too short". It is oversimplifying the evaluation process that is far more complicated than a single physical measurement.....especially considering the success of guys like Wilson, Brees, Baker, etc. who have succeeded at a below average height.

Certainly there are varying degrees of short but if people subscribe to the theory that Murray can't see over his lineman and that is why you shouldn't draft him, there is literally zero chance Wilson can either (if that is your stance).......and he has succeeded anyway. Every short person will not succeed but Wilson has removed the stereotype that nobody can succeed.

Now scouts need to decide if someone in the same ballpark can succeed with a lesser but adequate arm but as a far more dynamic runner. Again, I don't love Murray but people are too polarized about him already. We haven't even seen what he is measured at, how his arm looks in throwing drills (and measured velocity), how he tests athletically, etc. He has tape that most will like and people should reserve final judgement on him until the combine / pro day, when he is stacked up physically. At this point, most are just guessing what his exact physical profile is.


Edit: I just saw this


So if that is true, he's less than an inch shorter than Wilson. Whatever that is worth to people.
Good point if he is 5'10 like said above. Thing about Wilson is he is 215lbs. If Kyler comes in at 205 or so, then I am a bit more ok with him.

Great point about the drills, I am not convinced the velocity test does much because some players with strong arms were at 55mph, I think they test speed out of the hand I think some people throw a ball that builds velocity past the test. Just doesn't match up the few times I looked long term at that test.

My thought was I was believe the noise he was going to come in at 5'8 which is where I have a problem with height. I always thought it was funny how they said Baker was so short when he measured just a bit under 6'1 which isn't that short for a pro qb.

But yeah, we will see, and evaluating a qb is tough. People will be lying if they think of the Ryan Leaf vs Peyton Manning debate that half of the league and fans preferred Leaf over Manning. Today no one preferred Leaf, but so not true back then.
 

Amherstcavsfan

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Wilson, without his mobility, still has a howitzer attached to his shoulder.

What is Murray without his legs. Because at 180lbs, kid is at real danger of a serious injury.
 

AZ_

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Height isn’t a huge issue with a system that forces teams to spread.

If anything, it makes the read option and run action tougher to diagnose for linebackers who don’t have a great view of him overtop the offensive and defensive lines.
 

Phills14

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Wilson, without his mobility, still has a howitzer attached to his shoulder.

What is Murray without his legs. Because at 180lbs, kid is at real danger of a serious injury.
I don't know Murray's intelligence level but that's another factor. Russell Wilson is a highly intelligent guy, exudes leadership and was a man not a boy by the time he was drafted. I am not saying Murray is not, frankly I have no idea, but what makes Wilson so good is that he is elite above the shoulders.
 

DocSaric

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I don't know Murray's intelligence level but that's another factor. Russell Wilson is a highly intelligent guy, exudes leadership and was a man not a boy by the time he was drafted. I am not saying Murray is not, frankly I have no idea, but what makes Wilson so good is that he is elite above the shoulders.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x1DJI26G8xo


We talking about the same Russell Wilson? Highly intelligent? Didn’t dude claim he hears Jesus in his helmet?
 

I'mWithDan

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Wilson, without his mobility, still has a howitzer attached to his shoulder.

What is Murray without his legs. Because at 180lbs, kid is at real danger of a serious injury.
I don't mean for this to come off as snarky but what evidence is there that this is true?

I genuinely am skeptical that there is a correlation between pure pound weight thresholds.....i.e. statements like "If a player only weighs 180 LBS, he will be in more danger of being seriously injured".

Tyreke Hill is a hair over 5'8", 185 LBS.......how many times has he been seriously injured because he was too small to take a hit?
 

I'mWithDan

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I don't know Murray's intelligence level but that's another factor. Russell Wilson is a highly intelligent guy, exudes leadership and was a man not a boy by the time he was drafted. I am not saying Murray is not, frankly I have no idea, but what makes Wilson so good is that he is elite above the shoulders.
Murray was an All Academic Big12 guy as a sophomore. Not sure if they have been released this year.

He's well spoken, thoughtful and generally will grade out with A/A+ character too.

I'd imagine he's as good as you would want between the ears.

Is he as smart as Wilson? We'll have to see if we can get them to play a game of Parcheesi at the combine.
 

Amherstcavsfan

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I don't mean for this to come off as snarky but what evidence is there that this is true?

I genuinely am skeptical that there is a correlation between pure pound weight thresholds.....i.e. statements like "If a player only weighs 180 LBS, he will be in more danger of being seriously injured".

Tyreke Hill is a hair over 5'8", 185 LBS.......how many times has he been seriously injured because he was too small to take a hit?
Hill has been getting beat up all season but more importantly, hes not a running QB. Running QBs dont last that long unless they are Cam size. Guys like Lamar Jackson and Watson have already been banged up or seriously hurt. And they are nearly twice the size.

Does that mean he will get hurt? Not really. But do you really want to take that chance with a 5'9" QB whose best skill is his legs?

This isnt Baker. Baker showed legitimate NFL QB skills at his time in Oklahoma. Stuff Kyler hasnt shown *anticipation throwing, proper aggression, and legit NFL Accuracy*.

I'm not saying Kyler is going to get hurt, or that he won't work in the NFL. But he is the biggest risk I have seen in a long time. Watching his game against Bama and seeing him get man handled at times was shocking.
 
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Norm

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I don't mean for this to come off as snarky but what evidence is there that this is true?

I genuinely am skeptical that there is a correlation between pure pound weight thresholds.....i.e. statements like "If a player only weighs 180 LBS, he will be in more danger of being seriously injured".

Tyreke Hill is a hair over 5'8", 185 LBS.......how many times has he been seriously injured because he was too small to take a hit?
I'd venture that the concerns would be a QB standing in the pocket at 180 lbs getting flattened by a 330 lb d-lineman. While Tyreke is probably a good comparison for size, Hill takes significantly less hits than what Murray would take from bigger players. Personally, I would not hedge my career, if I was a coach, on a QB that may measure out at 5'9.

Not saying it would be impossible for Murray to have a successful career, just depends on a competent GM and coach designing a team and scheme to accommodate Murray
 
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I'mWithDan

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I'd venture that the concerns would be a QB standing in the pocket at 180 lbs getting flattened by a 330 lb d-lineman. While Tyreke is probably a good comparison for size, Hill takes significantly less hits than what Murray would take from bigger players. Personally, I would not hedge my career, if I was a coach, on a QB that may measure out at 5'9.

Not saying it would be impossible for Murray to have a successful career, just depends on a competent GM and coach designing a team and scheme to accommodate Murray
Sure, and I am not saying size shouldn't help......it seems to make sense in theory but QB's just get a lot of protection now. They don't take many big hits, even running QB's and a player that is smart about picking his spots to push the envelope take even less. How many times was Jackson squared up this year? I was just curious is research exists that says player at certain weight thresholds suffer more injuries or lost games than players who are bigger or heavier.

The NFL has seen an influx of short or fairly light guys have a lot of success. Is that at all positions? Not yet but skill guys have seen a shift.

Tyreke Hill, Brandin Cooks, Sproles, Hawkins, TL Lewis, Gabriel, Ward, Robey Coleman, Mathieu, Grant, etc, etc.

They are still more of the exception but the perception of pure size at all positions has certainly softened as offenses have evolved and some of the smaller skill players have succeeded.
 

Norm

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Sure, and I am not saying size shouldn't help......it seems to make sense in theory but QB's just get a lot of protection now. They don't take many big hits, even running QB's and a player that is smart about picking his spots to push the envelope take even less. How many times was Jackson squared up this year? I was just curious is research exists that says player at certain weight thresholds suffer more injuries or lost games than players who are bigger or heavier.

The NFL has seen an influx of short or fairly light guys have a lot of success. Is that at all positions? Not yet but skill guys have seen a shift.

Tyreke Hill, Brandin Cooks, Sproles, Hawkins, TL Lewis, Gabriel, Ward, Robey Coleman, Mathieu, Grant, etc, etc.

They are still more of the exception but the perception of pure size at all positions has certainly softened as offenses have evolved and some of the smaller skill players have succeeded.
I agree with what you're saying. Only part I am having trouble with? We're talking about a potentially 5'9" QB. Not seen anything like that since Flutie.

And while the league is making the sport safer, how many hits did Baker take that should have been flagged, but wasn't? Let's not forget the no call helmet to helmet because Baker was a runner and gave up his right to not be hit helmet to helmet. While there may be rules to be safer, we've seen too many times the rules were not enforced properly. Not just pointing out our QB, who is one of the shorter QBs in the league.........Newton is one of the bigger QBs and the refs haven't flagged alot of stuff against him over the years. So much to the point that there are rumors he may sit out 2019 so his shoulder can properly heal.

I'd have extreme reservations about my team taking Murray earlier in the draft to be my franchise QB. May not be year 1 or 2, but eventually he's going to get hurt. His frame, which a smaller height limits his ability to add mass, will eventually be an issue.
 

Phills14

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Murray was an All Academic Big12 guy as a sophomore. Not sure if they have been released this year.

He's well spoken, thoughtful and generally will grade out with A/A+ character too.

I'd imagine he's as good as you would want between the ears.

Is he as smart as Wilson? We'll have to see if we can get them to play a game of Parcheesi at the combine.
Yea that's all good stuff. I don't know much about him but what I'm saying is Wilson overcame his lack of size by being great above the shoulders. Maybe Murray has that too but he will need it to be successful at the next level.
 

col63onel

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All joking not even close to being aside I saw a YouTube video titled “Should the Arizona Cardinals trade Rosen to the Giants and draft Kyler Murray?”
Last year when TTech was prepping to play Oklahoma, Kingsbury said he'd take Murray #1 overall.

Probably just coachspeak, but it's still a direct quote from Arizona's new HC.
 

bob2the2nd

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According to an SI article, Scot McCaughlin has Murray as the best QB in this draft class, but would have put him fifth last year behind Mayfield, Darnold, Josh Allen and Rosen.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/28/kyler-murray-height-best-quarterback-scot-mccloughan
Let's be honest though, Mayfields success is helping to drive this. Murray may have been behind those guys if he comes out last year. However if they were coming out this year instead and trying to compete with murray after what mayfield did Murray is still very much in the conversation for #1
 

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