LeMelo Ball Scouting: Discuss

[letgocavs]

Cavs could use a playmaker. I think Ball is the right pick. One you can keep Sexton and garland and start all three bring one off the bench whatever but ball would be your primary ball handler and would make this team better. Hes the pick for the Cavs if he's there. Garland showed me a lack of feel for the game at point. Ball can help him get open looks. We need a pg though and one who can make mates better.

 

[Derek]

Offense was not the issue with a Garland/Sexton backcourt last year.

12/6 - 2/29 (when Garland stopped playing):

The Garland/Sexton backcourt had an ORtg of 113.3, which would have been 4th best in the league, just ahead of the Lakers.

The issue is that their DRtg was 121.1, which would have been far and away the worst in the league. For reference, we had the all-time worst defense in NBA history in 2018-19 with a DRtg of 117.6.

Adding Ball to the mix solves just exacerbates our current problems while solving none of them.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Adding Ball to the mix solves just exacerbates our current problems while solving none of them

I agree Ball isn't a plus defender yet, but he has the frame to defend multiple positions. His older brother has made the big step, and is now a more positive defensive player than offensive player. He leads the Pelicans in a few defensive advanced stats this year while still leading in assists. Melo happens to be the better athlete as well.

 

[Derek]

I agree Ball isn't a plus defender yet, but he has the frame to defend multiple positions. His older brother has made the big step, and is now a more positive defensive player than offensive player. He leads the Pelicans in a few defensive advanced stats this year while still leading in assists. Melo happens to be the better athlete as well.

LaMelo’s defensive apathy is a huge red flag for me and I doubt he’s ever a non-abysmal defender at any position.

If he can’t be bothered to try playing winning basketball while building a draft resume, why should we expect him to try once he’s made his nut?

I can’t use Lonzo as a comp because he looked like a plus defender even at UCLA.

 

[Randolphkeys]

LaMelo’s defensive apathy is a huge red flag for me and I doubt he’s ever a non-abysmal defender at any position.

If he can’t be bothered to try playing winning basketball while building a draft resume, why should we expect him to try once he’s made his nut?

I can’t use Lonzo as a comp because he looked like a plus defender even at UCLA.

Maybe I'm too big of an optimist on Ball's defensive potential. I'd hope what his brother has learned could rub off on his younger brother, especially as they discuss what they have to do to be successful in the NBA. His older brother has been served a few heaping platefuls of humble pie as a pro.

I'm still most worried about his jumper, which not only has serious form flaws but also didn't drop often in the NBL.

 

[Derek]

Maybe I'm too big of an optimist on Ball's defensive potential. I'd hope what his brother has learned could rub off on his younger brother, especially as they discuss what they have to do to be successful in the NBA. His older brother has been served a few heaping platefuls of humble pie as a pro.

I'm still most worried about his jumper, which not only has serious form flaws but also didn't drop often in the NBL.

Ethan Strauss wrote an article that sums up my thoughts on LaMelo Ball really well.

I believe I posted excerpts in the draft thread.

I try not to post too much on Ball, because my thoughts are pretty clear. I think he’s Trae Young without the shotmaking ability.

Only reason I chimed in here was to shoot down the idea that offense and more specifically playmaking are the issues with our current backcourt.

We need defenders. Not guys we hope will turn into defenders, but actual defenders. Most young players will struggle defensively regardless, but we need to look at guys who have already been high-level defenders wherever they’ve played.

There. Now I’ll leave Ball is certainly a prospect worth discussing, so I won’t be the wet blanket any longer now that I’ve said my piece.

 

[Nathan S]

LaMelo’s defensive apathy is a huge red flag for me and I doubt he’s ever a non-abysmal defender at any position.

If he can’t be bothered to try playing winning basketball while building a draft resume, why should we expect him to try once he’s made his nut?

I can’t use Lonzo as a comp because he looked like a plus defender even at UCLA.

It's notable that in spite of his inconsistent effort, he still led his team in steals (overall and per-minute) and in defensive rebounds (3rd per-minute). It helps to be 6'8". In an 18-year-old with good physical tools I can live with inconsistent flashes of potential, and Ball showed that.

If he's not coachable and doesn't have the drive to improve then that's a bigger issue, and a serious red flag. But I think it's a big leap to draw that conclusion. Edwards didn't show the ability to play winning basketball in college, but no one's questioning his character and work ethic.

 

[Randolphkeys]

This is turning out to be a draft where about ten guys look to be solid starters down the line, but I don't see much high ceiling star power.

If the Cavaliers are going into this draft thinking it's not the year to grab a future star, it's the year to grab a young building block who fits, I'm okay with that. I have a few players ahead of Ball because of fit alone.

Ball might not fix his shooting and he might need a few years to become a dedicated defender. However he has traits that make him an exciting and versatile player. Once he gets his grown man on, he could be a 2/3 swingman like his big brother. The reason I still have Ball on my draft list is that if the Cavs never drafted Garland, he would pair excellently with Sexton because they have strengths and weaknesses that would compliment each other well.

Most importantly, he has improved from playing with the USA team until now. He went from a joke who was way behind in his father's international competitions to a legit player in Australia. Has he improved in the past year? Just like Wiseman, it's impossible for a guy like me to know what happens behind closed doors outside of Instagram.

I have a rough top six fits for the Cavs I put in the draft thread. I want to wait for the lottery to decide the order. Ball is likely in the mix, I just wonder where.

 

[Derek]

It's notable that in spite of his inconsistent effort, he still led his team in steals (overall and per-minute) and in defensive rebounds (3rd per-minute). It helps to be 6'8". In an 18-year-old with good physical tools I can live with inconsistent flashes of potential, and Ball showed that.

If he's not coachable and doesn't have the drive to improve then that's a bigger issue, and a serious red flag. But I think it's a big leap to draw that conclusion. Edwards didn't show the ability to play winning basketball in college, but no one's questioning his character and work ethic.

I understand where you’re coming from, but as someone who has been coaching and training for the last 11 years, it’s difficult for me to buy into a player who spends some defensive possessions with his hands on his knees and shows no discernible desire to play winning basketball on either end.

 

[Cavatt]

I understand where you’re coming from, but as someone who has been coaching and training for the last 11 years, it’s difficult for me to buy into a player who spends some defensive possessions with his hands on his knees and shows no discernible desire to play winning basketball on either end.

He's been treated like a star for a long time now too.

He's very exciting and it is a tough call.

 

[Nathan S]

I understand where you’re coming from, but as someone who has been coaching and training for the last 11 years, it’s difficult for me to buy into a player who spends some defensive possessions with his hands on his knees and shows no discernible desire to play winning basketball on either end.

Worth considering that his team went 1-13 in games Ball didn't play. Sometimes the circumstances make winning basketball nearly impossible. Of their 4 total wins, 2 were directly attributable to dominant performances by Ball.

 

[Derek]

Worth considering that his team went 1-13 in games Ball didn't play. Sometimes the circumstances make winning basketball nearly impossible. Of their 4 total wins, 2 were directly attributable to dominant performances by Ball.

I don’t think him not playing winning basketball is really up for debate.

He has no issue firing off one legged fade-away 3’s and shooting 25% on high volume 3’s while giving no effort on defense.

 

[Nathan S]

I don’t think him not playing winning basketball is really up for debate.

He has no issue firing off one legged fade-away 3’s and shooting 25% on high volume 3’s while giving no effort on defense.

The context is still important. Look at Young's college season, for instance. In wins (mostly toward the beginning of the season against weak minor-conference opponents), he shot was the picture of offensive efficiency, shooting 47% from the field and 43% from deep, with 10.1 assists and 4.6 turnovers. In losses (mostly toward the end of the season against tough major-conference opponents), he was wildly inefficient, shooting 36% from the field and 28% from deep, with 7.0 assists and 6.1 turnovers.

If you looked only at Young's games against superior opponents, you could easily conclude that he was a hopeless chucker who has no idea how to play winning basketball. With Ball, that's the only side of the coin we get to see, and it doesn't paint a very flattering picture of course. But that shouldn't unfairly skew our evaluation of him.

 

[Derek]

The context is still important. Look at Young's college season, for instance. In wins (mostly toward the beginning of the season against weak minor-conference opponents), he shot was the picture of offensive efficiency, shooting 47% from the field and 43% from deep, with 10.1 assists and 4.6 turnovers. In losses (mostly toward the end of the season against tough major-conference opponents), he was wildly inefficient, shooting 36% from the field and 28% from deep, with 7.0 assists and 6.1 turnovers.

If you looked only at Young's games against superior opponents, you could easily conclude that he was a hopeless chucker who has no idea how to play winning basketball. With Ball, that's the only side of the coin we get to see, and it doesn't paint a very flattering picture of course. But that shouldn't unfairly skew our evaluation of him.

Well, I still don’t think Trae Young plays winning basketball

 

[Man Called X]

The context is still important. Look at Young's college season, for instance. In wins (mostly toward the beginning of the season against weak minor-conference opponents), he shot was the picture of offensive efficiency, shooting 47% from the field and 43% from deep, with 10.1 assists and 4.6 turnovers. In losses (mostly toward the end of the season against tough major-conference opponents), he was wildly inefficient, shooting 36% from the field and 28% from deep, with 7.0 assists and 6.1 turnovers.

If you looked only at Young's games against superior opponents, you could easily conclude that he was a hopeless chucker who has no idea how to play winning basketball. With Ball, that's the only side of the coin we get to see, and it doesn't paint a very flattering picture of course. But that shouldn't unfairly skew our evaluation of him.

Are we now calling the entire NBL superior opponents? Why do we want to ignore the countless red flags? Because he's 6'7 and can pass? I seriously can't believe people are advocating for the epitome of everything that is wrong with AAU ball.