Lindor trade ideas

[Gson]

Teams with two good catchers.... there are more than you'd think.. and even more if you consider their catching prospects that ready to play.. Catching is a lot like pitching.. when you think you have enough.. you go get more.. The Indians in 2016.. had Yan and Bebo.. were as good as the Indians have head in nearly a decade..

 

[Steve_424]

Mets get: Francisco Lindor, Adam Plutko
Indians get: JD Davis, Brandon Nimmo, Amed Rosario

Who says no?

 

[EdMonix11]

Mets get: Francisco Lindor, Adam Plutko
Indians get: JD Davis, Brandon Nimmo, Amed Rosario

Who says no?

Indians, for two reasons....

One, all three of those guys are arbitration eligible. The ROI would be super low but, honestly, the lack of cost-certainty is what makes it an easy no for the Indians. The arbitration process can be a crapshoot. You're only getting two years of Nimmo, three of Rosario and four of Davis. Acquiring Minor League prospects and younger MLBers is how you stretch that ROI. Plus, those pre-arb deals are like gold for organizations like the Indians and I know that's something they weigh considerably in trade talks.

As for the players, I like Nimmo a lot but he can't seem to stay healthy and he's gonna get expensive soon. Rosario and Davis are JAG's to me. I know this isn't going to be popular but I think the Indians need to spend this upcoming season seeing what they have in guys like Bauers, Naquin, Reyes, Mercado, Zimmer, DeShields, etc.

Which brings me to my second point-- I don't think the Indians have room on the MLB roster for two more corner OF types. Like, what do they do when Nolan Jones (likely in RF) and Daniel Johnson are ready? It's sounding like Josh Naylor is staying in LF, as well. To be honest, we're not far from a pretty crowded OF and that's why I think the Indians need to make determinations on some of these guys while they have the ability to do so.

It's tricky because, in my opinion, Naylor, Jones and Johnson are going to be legit MLB players. It sounds like the Indians still believe in Mercado. Bauers was the guy next in line for a call up this year. Naquin has had his moments of performance when healthy. Luplow is good in the small-end platoon role. And Reyes would like a shot in the OF.

(And I know Nimmo played CF this year but his UZR and UZR/150 was the worst in the MLB in CF so I'd think that'd be a non-starter for the Indians)

Just my two cents....

 

[Steve_424]

Indians, for two reasons....

One, all three of those guys are arbitration eligible. The ROI would be super low but, honestly, the lack of cost-certainty is what makes it an easy no for the Indians. The arbitration process can be a crapshoot. You're only getting two years of Nimmo, three of Rosario and four of Davis. Acquiring Minor League prospects and younger MLBers is how you stretch that ROI. Plus, those pre-arb deals are like gold for organizations like the Indians and I know that's something they weigh considerably in trade talks.

As for the players, I like Nimmo a lot but he can't seem to stay healthy and he's gonna get expensive soon. Rosario and Davis are JAG's to me. I know this isn't going to be popular but I think the Indians need to spend this upcoming season seeing what they have in guys like Bauers, Naquin, Reyes, Mercado, Zimmer, DeShields, etc.

Which brings me to my second point-- I don't think the Indians have room on the MLB roster for two more corner OF types. Like, what do they do when Nolan Jones (likely in RF) and Daniel Johnson are ready? It's sounding like Josh Naylor is staying in LF, as well. To be honest, we're not far from a pretty crowded OF and that's why I think the Indians need to make determinations on some of these guys while they have the ability to do so.

It's tricky because, in my opinion, Naylor, Jones and Johnson are going to be legit MLB players. It sounds like the Indians still believe in Mercado. Bauers was the guy next in line for a call up this year. Naquin has had his moments of performance when healthy. Luplow is good in the small-end platoon role. And Reyes would like a shot in the OF.

(And I know Nimmo played CF this year but his UZR and UZR/150 was the worst in the MLB in CF so I'd think that'd be a non-starter for the Indians)

Just my two cents....

I agree the Indians likely avoid arb guys, but I'd love Davis. He's actually had a higher OPS than Lindor the past two seasons.

 

[Kevalier]

Pluto mentioning the Blue Jays again as a real possibility for a Lindor trade this morning.

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/202...or-cleveland-indians-terrys-talkin-tribe.html



Just speculating here, but I wonder if Carrasco could also be involved in a deal with Frankie to Toronto considering the Blue Jays are also in the market for a front of the rotation starter to go along with Ryu and Pearson. The deal may possibly be something along the lines of one starting OF (Hernandez or Gurriel), one of their three big league catchers (Jansen, McGuire or Kirk), one of their top IF prospects (Groshans or Martinez) and a top pitching prospect (Woods-Richardson, Manoah or Kloffenstein) for Frankie and Cookie. Maybe throw in Santiago Espinal as well to add to the Indians MIF mid next season.

 

[Steve_424]

Pluto mentioning the Blue Jays again as a real possibility for a Lindor trade this morning.

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/202...or-cleveland-indians-terrys-talkin-tribe.html

View attachment 4279

Just speculating here, but I wonder if Carrasco could also be involved in a deal with Frankie to Toronto considering the Blue Jays are also in the market for a front of the rotation starter to go along with Ryu and Pearson. The deal may possibly be something along the lines of one starting OF (Hernandez or Gurriel), one of their three big league catchers (Jansen, McGuire or Kirk), one of their top IF prospects (Groshans or Martinez) and a top pitching prospect (Woods-Richardson, Manoah or Kloffenstein) for Frankie and Cookie. Maybe throw in Santiago Espinal as well to add to the Indians MIF mid next season.

It's odd that Pluto seems to think the Indians just don't want Santana back. For his option price? Absolutely not. But if all it takes is a minor league deal, as Pluto speculates?

 

[Gson]

Pluto mentioning the Blue Jays again as a real possibility for a Lindor trade this morning.

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/202...or-cleveland-indians-terrys-talkin-tribe.html

View attachment 4279

Just speculating here, but I wonder if Carrasco could also be involved in a deal with Frankie to Toronto considering the Blue Jays are also in the market for a front of the rotation starter to go along with Ryu and Pearson. The deal may possibly be something along the lines of one starting OF (Hernandez or Gurriel), one of their three big league catchers (Jansen, McGuire or Kirk), one of their top IF prospects (Groshans or Martinez) and a top pitching prospect (Woods-Richardson, Manoah or Kloffenstein) for Frankie and Cookie. Maybe throw in Santiago Espinal as well to add to the Indians MIF mid next season.

Toronto has some very interesting possibilities w/r to a Lindor/Cookie deal..

but, start with Austin Martin... maybe focus on one quality ML players like Gurriel.. then an added prospect as a throw in (like: Dasan Brown).. for BOTH of our guys..

w/r to the names/deal listed.. Gurriel would be a fine addition..while "settling" for Teoscar would not be a bad choice.. None of the three ML catchers would be of interest... Personally, my preference would be for a guy like Riley Adams, the Jays low twenties backstop prospect. Then one of Groshans or Martinez, and one of the three pitchers.. Net four for two.. one being a current ML OF'er..

W/R to Pluto being the source.. makes this "deal" pretty much not happening..

 

[Urban]

Teams with two good catchers.... there are more than you'd think.. and even more if you consider their catching prospects that ready to play.. Catching is a lot like pitching.. when you think you have enough.. you go get more.. The Indians in 2016.. had Yan and Bebo.. were as good as the Indians have head in nearly a decade..

I mean, those two had a .528 and .579 OPS in 2016. There's a reason they tried to trade for Lucroy

In any case, Grandal is one of the best catchers in baseball. Collins will be just fine as the backup if McCann signs elsewhere

 

[EdMonix11]

Pluto mentioning the Blue Jays again as a real possibility for a Lindor trade this morning.

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/202...or-cleveland-indians-terrys-talkin-tribe.html

Just speculating here, but I wonder if Carrasco could also be involved in a deal with Frankie to Toronto considering the Blue Jays are also in the market for a front of the rotation starter to go along with Ryu and Pearson. The deal may possibly be something along the lines of one starting OF (Hernandez or Gurriel), one of their three big league catchers (Jansen, McGuire or Kirk), one of their top IF prospects (Groshans or Martinez) and a top pitching prospect (Woods-Richardson, Manoah or Kloffenstein) for Frankie and Cookie. Maybe throw in Santiago Espinal as well to add to the Indians MIF mid next season.

My buddy from Toronto seems to think the Jays untouchables are: Bichette, Guerrero Jr, Biggio, Pearson and Martin.

I think everybody on here is really underrating Groshans. People in Toronto think he'd be the next 'untouchable'.

Betts fetched a young big leaguer and a top prospect. Lindor doesn't have Betts' value but we're also not attaching Price's contract either. I think the deal I posted earlier is really fair.... Jansen, Groshans and a younger prospect.

FWIW, I'm surprised by the lack of interest in Danny Jansen by some posters on here (not directing this at anyone in particular). The wRC+ of Indians catchers this year was 27. Let that sink in for a minute..... I went back 20 seasons and that's the lowest wRC+ output I've seen from the Catcher position for a team in a single season. For comparison, most teams at the bottom of wRC+ at Catcher are in the 50-60's range. As much as I love Perez's defense, and I know the Indians value defense at that position, his offensive ineptitude was a level we haven't seen before in history and Hedges' metrics aren't much better. Jansen had a wRC+ of 89 this year and has posted fairly elite defensive metrics. He's not a world beater by any means at this dish but he's only 25, on a pre-arb contract and I think he's closer to average offensively than the two guys we have now while still providing the requisite defense.

Now, if we're including Cookie, I'd look at it as two separate deals. One of the top pitching prospects (Manoah, SWR or Kloffenstein) is a must. Teoscar has now had 1 1/2 elite seasons so the thought seems to be that his breakout is for real. Grichuk is signed long-term. So that basically leaves Gurriel Jr. and their untouchables. Gurriel's inclusion feels like it's too much but we might've gone light with Jansen's inclusion for Lindor so I think this framework might work.

 

[Kevalier]

My buddy from Toronto seems to think the Jays untouchables are: Bichette, Guerrero Jr, Biggio, Pearson and Martin.

I think everybody on here is really underrating Groshans. People in Toronto think he'd be the next 'untouchable'.

Betts fetched a young big leaguer and a top prospect. Lindor doesn't have Betts' value but we're also not attaching Price's contract either. I think the deal I posted earlier is really fair.... Jansen, Groshans and a younger prospect.

FWIW, I'm surprised by the lack of interest in Danny Jansen by some posters on here (not directing this at anyone in particular). The wRC+ of Indians catchers this year was 27. Let that sink in for a minute..... I went back 20 seasons and that's the lowest wRC+ output I've seen from the Catcher position for a team in a single season. For comparison, most teams at the bottom of wRC+ at Catcher are in the 50-60's range. As much as I love Perez's defense, and I know the Indians value defense at that position, his offensive ineptitude was a level we haven't seen before in history and Hedges' metrics aren't much better. Jansen had a wRC+ of 89 this year and has posted fairly elite defensive metrics. He's not a world beater by any means at this dish but he's only 25, on a pre-arb contract and I think he's closer to average offensively than the two guys we have now while still providing the requisite defense.

Now, if we're including Cookie, I'd look at it as two separate deals. One of the top pitching prospects (Manoah, SWR or Kloffenstein) is a must. Teoscar has now had 1 1/2 elite seasons so the thought seems to be that his breakout is for real. Grichuk is signed long-term. So that basically leaves Gurriel Jr. and their untouchables. Gurriel's inclusion feels like it's too much but we might've gone light with Jansen's inclusion for Lindor so I think this framework might work.

Excellent post. I really appreciate your insight on here, as it’s fun to go back and forth on other team’s prospects with posters on the forum that have a realistic perspective.

 

[LL3]

Been away from this discussion for a while , but looking at the topics of the moment, I am a bit surprised at how much buzz Toronto is generating as a potential trade partner, but I really like Groshans as a piece...great swing, potential to develop power, and a likely better than average 2b/3b guy. I have no idea how the past COVID laced season and the uncertainty of the next will affect trade values/potential returns, but he would clearly be a desirable target in a package.

 

[Steve_424]

I continue to think the Mets are the best fit.

Lindor for JD Davis, Brandon Nimmo, and Amed Rosario. The Indians will probably prefer more of a pre-arb package, but this deal would, IMO, make the Indians better than they are with Lindor.

CF-Nimmo
3B-Ramirez
LF-JD Davis
DH-Reyes
RF-Naylor
1B-N. Jones
2B-Chang
C-Perez
SS-Rosario

You can probably find a veteran 2B instead of Chang - Hernandez, Kipnis, Schoop, E. Hernández, M. Gonzalez are all possible options. Jones may not start with the team, but I think he and Naylor will fill 1B and a corner OF spot by May.

 

[sportscoach]

I continue to think the Mets are the best fit.

Lindor for JD Davis, Brandon Nimmo, and Amed Rosario. The Indians will probably prefer more of a pre-arb package, but this deal would, IMO, make the Indians better than they are with Lindor.

CF-Nimmo
3B-Ramirez
LF-JD Davis
DH-Reyes
RF-Naylor
1B-N. Jones
2B-Chang
C-Perez
SS-Rosario

You can probably find a veteran 2B instead of Chang - Hernandez, Kipnis, Schoop, E. Hernández, M. Gonzalez are all possible options. Jones may not start with the team, but I think he and Naylor will fill 1B and a corner OF spot by May.

Rosario is one of the worst fielding SS around the league. Nimmo is due arbitration 2 and Rosario is due arbitration. JD Davis cannot field so he is better as a DH type, which we already have Reyes.

This wouldn't be a good trade. Nimmo would be fine, I dont mind him (even though he will cost 3-4 mil), but the rest gotta be young guys hence why we kept stating 2-3 prospects with Nimmo.

 

[Steve_424]

Rosario is one of the worst fielding SS around the league. Nimmo is due arbitration 2 and Rosario is due arbitration. JD Davis cannot field so he is better as a DH type, which we already have Reyes.

This wouldn't be a good trade. Nimmo would be fine, I dont mind him (even though he will cost 3-4 mil), but the rest gotta be young guys hence why we kept stating 2-3 prospects with Nimmo.

JD Davis certainly won't win any Gold Gloves, but his bat is worth the trade-off. Again - we're talking about a guy who has had a higher OPS than Lindor the past two seasons. You have the pitching and possibly bullpen to win now, why target only super young players?

I'm fine with Davis+Nimmo+prospects, though.

 

[Urban]

You have the pitching and possibly bullpen to win now, why target only super young players?

Think it's important to point of Davis had nearly 200 less plate appearances than Lindor in 2019 and Davis's OPS was only .760 this year.

You have the pitching and possibly bullpen to win now, why target only super young players?

Just looking at the trade you proposed of Davis-Nimmo-Rosario, here is how I see that trade ending:

-Davis potentially being traded in 2 years because he gets too expensive and the Indians don't want to pay him
-Nimmo being non-tendered after the 2021 season because his salary is too high for a guy who missed half of the season again. Or traded so the Indians can re-coup some value for a soon to be free agent making $6m+ in 2022
-Rosario is non-tendered or traded for scraps in 2 years because his salary doesn't match his production and he lost his starting job to an Arias, Rocchio, etc.

I'd rather swing for the fences and potentially get a great prospect who the Indians can control for 6+ years and build around vs. some good players who aren't necessarily long term solutions.

Listen, I don't think it's necessarily a bad trade if the goal is to pick up right where the Indians left off. I'm a big fan of Nimmo when he's healthy. This just does not seem like the trade the Indians will make since cheap team control is so important to the way this organization runs.