Lindor trade ideas

[EdMonix11]

I don't really like Dylan Carlson all that much....

His trackman data is reported to be very average-- Exit velo in the minors was average. Slightly below average in his stint in the Majors this year. He's maxed out physically so there's really no projection left. What's most concerning beyond the exit velo is that his HR total spiked with the new MiLB ball last year and Springfield being a hitters paradise.

 

[Steve_424]

Yeah but it makes more sense to discount Naquin first year than this year because he struggled so much after the scouting report went around on him.

While not as good as 2016, Naquin was pretty good in 2019 when he actually made it on the field. Just a wildly inconsistent player.

 

[CDAV45]

Take away this season and the overall numbers go up...you can do whatever you want to make the numbers fit your argument. And again, my primary argument is that he's been arguably your best OF and you might non-tender him because even that isn't very good. It says more about the current state of the Indians lineup than it does Naquin.



DeShields really hurt the Indians with his lack of arm strength IMO. Runners tagging and/or scoring on base hits that they just shouldn't have been.

I would prefer better defenders and see the Rays as an example of what great defense can do, but if you're going to have a payroll like the Indians are expected to you're probably going to have warts in places.

Yeah, DeShields is not "elite" defensively. His routes are questionable and his arm is a limp noodle. Not a terrible player by any means, but more of bench player IMO. Considering that he has no power whatsoever and his career OBP isn't outstanding only supports my thoughts. Bottom line, I don't believe he's the type of player that keeps a younger, more talented player out of the line up. I'd rather watch Mercado and/or Johnson struggle to find their offensive stride than DeShields do what he did this season.

 

[EdMonix11]

FWIW, according to Statcast, DeShields was easily elite defensively the previous two years.... not sure what happened with him this year but I'd think the injuries he suffered in the winter and missing the re-start with COVID probably had something to do with it.

Outs Above Average: 2019- 12 (5th MLB/OF), 2018- 12 (8th MLB/OF), 2017- 5 (25th MLB/OF)

Runs prevented: 2019- 11 (5th MLB/OF), 2018- 11 (8th MLB/OF), 2017- 5 (25th MLB/OF)

 

[sportscoach]

FWIW, according to Statcast, DeShields was easily elite defensively the previous two years.... not sure what happened with him this year but I'd think the injuries he suffered in the winter and missing the re-start with COVID probably had something to do with it.

Outs Above Average: 2019- 12 (5th MLB/OF), 2018- 12 (8th MLB/OF), 2017- 5 (25th MLB/OF)

Runs prevented: 2019- 11 (5th MLB/OF), 2018- 11 (8th MLB/OF), 2017- 5 (25th MLB/OF)

I'm not sure either, but he didn't look confident or sharp out there in CF. My guess is between time missing and in a new place (I wonder what his home and road splits are defensively) that he just never got up to his normal standards. He is still a legit 4th OF, just not sure we wanna pay the 2+ mil on the final year of his contract

 

[DCTribefan]

Chicago sports writers on Cubs pursuit of Lindor.

Is there any chance the Cubs clear enough money/players to go out and acquire a superstar, such as Francisco Lindor? "No chance, no chance!" Gordon replies to Kap's question amid a spirited debate among the group.

Lindor is under contract through 2021 and plays shortstop. The Cubs have a star shortstop in Báez, but he's played plenty of second base in his career and as Maddie points out, was Lindor's double-play partner in the 2017 World Baseball Classic.

Instead of acquiring Lindor, Gordon poses a different scenario of going to Báez, Bryant and Rizzo and offering a way to keep the trio together with backloaded extensions for another few runs together. "Hard pass," Kap replies.

But if the Cubs move on from Bryant between now and next winter, Tim says make a run at Lindor, Báez' close friend, in 2021-22 free agency.

Bold predictions for Cubs 2020-21 offseason

Our Cubs coverage team put their expertise together — and on the line — for some especially bold predictions for the 2020-21 Cubs offseason.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Gson]

Cubs fans will tell you.. by the time Spring Training rolls around..the Cubs FO will have had discussions on every single FA that might or might now help the cubs... coming to the cubs as their next great addition... A middle infield of Baez and Lindor would be plenty sweet, though...

 

[xmasbuck]

they beat us, but that Cubs dynasty has slowed a bit

 

[Gson]

Jon Heyman agrees with Anthony Castrovince that Lindor moving to Toronto makes a lot of sense.. (Heyman has also stated that the Mets would make sense too...but for the reason the new ownership wants to splash forth into the limelight of MLB's bright lights).. The move would allow the Jay's young Vlad Jr. to move from third to first, Dante Bichette Jr to take over the hot corner and install Lindor at SS while completing the infield with Cavan Biggio manning second base. This, makes the Jays infield one of the best if not thee best in MLB..

Not hard to see the value there.. the question becomes what would it cost the Jays to acquire the great Frankie Lindor?.. would they have enough to buy the services of Trevor Bauer if they do or can a "deal" be constructed whereby the Indians solve both of these needs while making the Indians better in two spots on the ML club at fiscally sound rates?..

So, if Toronto (for Lindor/SP) sends back some salary to offset the cost of the incoming player (Francisco Lindor).. then a deal could be considered a win-win for both clubs.. Obviously, there would be several iterations, however, this one might solve everyone's problems in one fell swoop..

Toronto gets: Francisco Lindor ($ 21 MM) and one of Aaron Civale/Scott Moss/Logan Allen (~est~ $ 0.58 MM)..

Cleveland gets: ($ 16MM paid over three years) Randall Grichuk ($ 10.3 MM x 3 yrs), Lourdes Gurriel jr. ($ 5 MM x 3 yrs), Jordan Groshans, and two of Alek Manoah, Adam Kloffenstein or Simeon Woods-Richardson. Adding Grichuk & Lourdes Gurriel adds an average/combined .285/320/.815 pair of OF'ers (combined career stats) in their prime along with two blue chip prospects. Basically, the Indians receive all of Lindor's offensive contribution in the outfield and then some with the development of the kids coming along with the deal... If the Jays want to "balance the deal" more.. the Indians should be able to add in their coming Competitive Balance Lottery Draft Pick.. should be equal to or better than at least one of the prospects the Jays could be sending..

If the Jays want a deal like this.. they should hold out for a negotiating window... or remove one of the three guys the Indians get to chose from?.. but.. the deal should not be held up because Lindor wants to be a FA.. that's not part of the deal or would be a deal killer from the Indians POV..

IDK.. thoughts?..

Edit: Simeon Woods-Richardson (48th pick) versus the Indians Comp A pick ~ 35th selection in the coming 2021 draft

 

[DCTribefan]

Jon Heyman agrees with Anthony Castrovince that Lindor moving to Toronto makes a lot of sense.. (Heyman has also stated that the Mets would make sense too...but for the reason the new ownership wants to splash forth into the limelight of MLB's bright lights).. The move would allow the Jay's young Vlad Jr. to move from third to first, Dante Bichette Jr to take over the hot corner and install Lindor at SS while completing the infield with Cavan Biggio manning second base. This, makes the Jays infield one of the best if not thee best in MLB..

Not hard to see the value there.. the question becomes what would it cost the Jays to acquire the great Frankie Lindor?.. would they have enough to buy the services of Trevor Bauer if they do or can a "deal" be constructed whereby the Indians solve both of these needs while making the Indians better in two spots on the ML club at fiscally sound rates?..

So, if Toronto (for Lindor/SP) sends back some salary to offset the cost of the incoming player (Francisco Lindor).. then a deal could be considered a win-win for both clubs.. Obviously, there would be several iterations, however, this one might solve everyone's problems in one fell swoop..

Toronto gets: Francisco Lindor ($ 21 MM) and one of Aaron Civale/Scott Moss/Logan Allen (~est~ $ 0.58 MM)..

Cleveland gets: ($ 16MM paid over three years) Randall Grichuk ($ 10.3 MM x 3 yrs), Lourdes Gurriel jr. ($ 5 MM x 3 yrs), Jordan Groshans, and two of Alek Manoah, Adam Kloffenstein or Simeon Woods-Richardson. Adding Grichuk & Lourdes Gurriel adds an average/combined .285/320/.815 pair of OF'ers (combined career stats) in their prime along with two blue chip prospects. Basically, the Indians receive all of Lindor's offensive contribution in the outfield and then some with the development of the kids coming along with the deal... If the Jays want to "balance the deal" more.. the Indians should be able to add in their coming Competitive Balance Lottery Draft Pick.. should be equal to or better than at least one of the prospects the Jays could be sending..

If the Jays want a deal like this.. they should hold out for a negotiating window... or remove one of the three guys the Indians get to chose from?.. but.. the deal should not be held up because Lindor wants to be a FA.. that's not part of the deal or would be a deal killer from the Indians POV..

IDK.. thoughts?..

Edit: Simeon Woods-Richardson (48th pick) versus the Indians Comp A pick ~ 35th selection in the coming 2021 draft

Very interesting proposal. Also, Toronto may benefit from earlier and maybe more attendance revenues than their US counterparts in 2021 as the pandemic has been more under control across Canada. Thus, they may be one of very few teams willing to take on a high-priced player in 2021.

 

[biggie4]

I wonder what Toronto thinks about that.

 

[EdMonix11]

Jon Heyman agrees with Anthony Castrovince that Lindor moving to Toronto makes a lot of sense.. (Heyman has also stated that the Mets would make sense too...but for the reason the new ownership wants to splash forth into the limelight of MLB's bright lights).. The move would allow the Jay's young Vlad Jr. to move from third to first, Dante Bichette Jr to take over the hot corner and install Lindor at SS while completing the infield with Cavan Biggio manning second base. This, makes the Jays infield one of the best if not thee best in MLB..

Not hard to see the value there.. the question becomes what would it cost the Jays to acquire the great Frankie Lindor?.. would they have enough to buy the services of Trevor Bauer if they do or can a "deal" be constructed whereby the Indians solve both of these needs while making the Indians better in two spots on the ML club at fiscally sound rates?..

So, if Toronto (for Lindor/SP) sends back some salary to offset the cost of the incoming player (Francisco Lindor).. then a deal could be considered a win-win for both clubs.. Obviously, there would be several iterations, however, this one might solve everyone's problems in one fell swoop..

Toronto gets: Francisco Lindor ($ 21 MM) and one of Aaron Civale/Scott Moss/Logan Allen (~est~ $ 0.58 MM)..

Cleveland gets: ($ 16MM paid over three years) Randall Grichuk ($ 10.3 MM x 3 yrs), Lourdes Gurriel jr. ($ 5 MM x 3 yrs), Jordan Groshans, and two of Alek Manoah, Adam Kloffenstein or Simeon Woods-Richardson. Adding Grichuk & Lourdes Gurriel adds an average/combined .285/320/.815 pair of OF'ers (combined career stats) in their prime along with two blue chip prospects. Basically, the Indians receive all of Lindor's offensive contribution in the outfield and then some with the development of the kids coming along with the deal... If the Jays want to "balance the deal" more.. the Indians should be able to add in their coming Competitive Balance Lottery Draft Pick.. should be equal to or better than at least one of the prospects the Jays could be sending..

If the Jays want a deal like this.. they should hold out for a negotiating window... or remove one of the three guys the Indians get to chose from?.. but.. the deal should not be held up because Lindor wants to be a FA.. that's not part of the deal or would be a deal killer from the Indians POV..

IDK.. thoughts?..

Edit: Simeon Woods-Richardson (48th pick) versus the Indians Comp A pick ~ 35th selection in the coming 2021 draft

Neither team would do that deal.

Lindor isn't going to land Gurriel, Grichuk, Groshans and two of their top pitching prospects. There's no chance of that unless you're adding Bieber....

The Indians aren't going anywhere near that Grichuk contract and they definitely aren't sweetening the pot with their comp pick.

 

[Gson]

I wonder what Toronto thinks about that.

Totonto would think they're giving up way more than they want.. They are also thinking that an infield as described along with the inclusion of a bona fide ML SP makes them a better team. Almost all deals like this.. never happen.. but.. it's the kind of deal that would end up beneficial for both clubs.. The deals where one team can say: WE KILLED THEM in a deal, with all the sabermetrics.. are becoming fewer and farther between..

As with most situations.. there are exceptions.. that is.. every once in a while.. a team makes a deal where they acquire an SP with a low 3's ERA, a WHIP less than 1.20, nearly twice as many wins as losses in decisions and a K-Rate that is more than one per inning for

"...a bunch of guys.."

..none of whom have histories littered with hall of fame accomplishments.. That bunch of guys.. in the aggregate, sometimes ends up being so good.. the deal that was supposed to be soooo one sided.. turns out to be.. anything but.. or just the opposite..

...it's not the same as when you post a hypothetical trade deal.. and it's immediately panned as never going to happen for either team.. with prejudice.. that's just negative..

Thoughts?..

 

[CDAV45]

Jon Heyman agrees with Anthony Castrovince that Lindor moving to Toronto makes a lot of sense.. (Heyman has also stated that the Mets would make sense too...but for the reason the new ownership wants to splash forth into the limelight of MLB's bright lights).. The move would allow the Jay's young Vlad Jr. to move from third to first, Dante Bichette Jr to take over the hot corner and install Lindor at SS while completing the infield with Cavan Biggio manning second base. This, makes the Jays infield one of the best if not thee best in MLB..

Not hard to see the value there.. the question becomes what would it cost the Jays to acquire the great Frankie Lindor?.. would they have enough to buy the services of Trevor Bauer if they do or can a "deal" be constructed whereby the Indians solve both of these needs while making the Indians better in two spots on the ML club at fiscally sound rates?..

So, if Toronto (for Lindor/SP) sends back some salary to offset the cost of the incoming player (Francisco Lindor).. then a deal could be considered a win-win for both clubs.. Obviously, there would be several iterations, however, this one might solve everyone's problems in one fell swoop..

Toronto gets: Francisco Lindor ($ 21 MM) and one of Aaron Civale/Scott Moss/Logan Allen (~est~ $ 0.58 MM)..

Cleveland gets: ($ 16MM paid over three years) Randall Grichuk ($ 10.3 MM x 3 yrs), Lourdes Gurriel jr. ($ 5 MM x 3 yrs), Jordan Groshans, and two of Alek Manoah, Adam Kloffenstein or Simeon Woods-Richardson. Adding Grichuk & Lourdes Gurriel adds an average/combined .285/320/.815 pair of OF'ers (combined career stats) in their prime along with two blue chip prospects. Basically, the Indians receive all of Lindor's offensive contribution in the outfield and then some with the development of the kids coming along with the deal... If the Jays want to "balance the deal" more.. the Indians should be able to add in their coming Competitive Balance Lottery Draft Pick.. should be equal to or better than at least one of the prospects the Jays could be sending..

If the Jays want a deal like this.. they should hold out for a negotiating window... or remove one of the three guys the Indians get to chose from?.. but.. the deal should not be held up because Lindor wants to be a FA.. that's not part of the deal or would be a deal killer from the Indians POV..

IDK.. thoughts?..

Edit: Simeon Woods-Richardson (48th pick) versus the Indians Comp A pick ~ 35th selection in the coming 2021 draft

A couple of things Gson. First, I like Grichuk, but not at $10.3M and I doubt the Indians do either. Second, of Civale, Moss, and Allen the Blue Jays would quickly choose Civale, but we forget how good he has actually been. As well thought of as Groshans and Manoah may be, they are more of what the Indians already have and I find it hard to believe that MC/CA would include Civale in that deal. It is also a lot for the Blue Jays to give up. I think any deal with Toronto will have Hernandez as the headliner with Kirk coming as well. The deal could very well be Lindor and Moss for Hernandez and Kirk. That's my best guess, but I'm certain the Blue Jays will not get Lindor and Civale for the package mentioned.

 

[Gson]

A couple of things Gson. First, I like Grichuk, but not at $10.3M and I doubt the Indians do either. Second, of Civale, Moss, and Allen the Blue Jays would quickly choose Civale, but we forget how good he has actually been. As well thought of as Groshans and Manoah may be, they are more of what the Indians already have and I find it hard to believe that MC/CA would include Civale in that deal. It is also a lot for the Blue Jays to give up. I think any deal with Toronto will have Hernandez as the headliner with Kirk coming as well. The deal could very well be Lindor and Moss for Hernandez and Kirk. That's my best guess, but I'm certain the Blue Jays will not get Lindor and Civale for the package mentioned.

How about Grichuk at $ 4 MM AAV?

Civale has been very good... no one has forgotten..

You can keep Kirk and Teoscar.. no interest whatsoever..