Lindor trade ideas

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sportscoach

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Yeah, Bauers isn't going to sniff RF. Hell, he's not very good in LF. He has a 1B glove and a UIF bat. Bauers may have been a top 100 prospect, but at no point in time in his professional career has he been an offensive force. He certainly doesn't profile as a corner player if you believe in setting offensive expectations based on positions. He's never had an OPS higher than .791 and that was in A ball. He carries a good OBP. He's just not the type of player/prospect that you allow to get in the way of a higher ceiling player IMO.

Jones is close and is profiling more as a 1B as time passes.

Bradley has no other position to play and is an offensive force if he can cut down on the K's.

Naylor can play an adequate 1B if a corner OFer is brought in or filled from within.

Bottom line, Bauers is going to have to light the world on fire. What he needs is a change of scenery TBH.
We all can agree on though, if Bauers get another chance, it will be his last one in the Cleveland uniform. He either proves his haters wrong or he can go elsewhere.

Lindor didn't have good minor league numbers hitting wise compared to his pro numbers, so you cannot always go by minor league numbers.

Simulators like Jones at 1B the best, but at the same time, its rare to see a platoon guy at 1B especially when we dont have a right handed bat that can platoon with him. Jones's numbers against lefties in the minors is horrific (like a .600 OPS). Jones they will try in the corners first because of his arm before he would be at 1B.
 
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EdMonix11

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I always find it super ironic when people talk about young players sucking and running out of chances and then turn around and fault the organization for giving up on Gio Urshela too soon

This isn’t about any one specific player but I’d be remiss to remind everyone that development is always linear
 

xmasbuck

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I always find it super ironic when people talk about young players sucking and running out of chances and then turn around and fault the organization for giving up on Gio Urshela too soon

This isn’t about any one specific player but I’d be remiss to remind everyone that development is always linear
are you just fluffing the fo or are you predicting that bauers will go on have urshela-esque couple of years?
 

Kevalier

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At some point settling for guys just to make deals doesn't keep you competitive.
Tellez wouldn’t be the centerpiece, as I would expect the Indians to demand someone like Jordan Groshans if Gurriel and Hernandez aren’t included. Tellez is nothing to sneeze at though, as he drastically cut his strikeouts last season while posting a wRC+ of 136 which was by far higher than any of our hitters last season outside of Jose. Tellez has also yet to reach arbitration, which is significant for this front office.
 

EdMonix11

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are you just fluffing the fo or are you predicting that bauers will go on have urshela-esque couple of years?
Uhhh neither?

I said this wasn't about any one specific player. Just a reminder that development isn't always linear and I gave an example.

I just find it ironic that there are those who are quick to remind everyone of Urshela's development, and blame the FO, and now we're going up and down the roster and saying this guy isn't good, this guy will never be anybody and so on and so forth. I mean, the whole development isn't linear thing could be applied to nearly the entire position player roster for the Indians right now. Hell, everyone wanted to get rid of Jose when he first came up and struggled.

I'm not making any declarations about anybody's future; just saying there's plenty of examples of guys turning it around
 

DerekG123

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I always find it super ironic when people talk about young players sucking and running out of chances and then turn around and fault the organization for giving up on Gio Urshela too soon

This isn’t about any one specific player but I’d be remiss to remind everyone that development is always linear
I hear you on this logic. But I'm less excited about Bauers than most prospects because he plays a position where productivity is usually easier to find/fill (1st base) and corner OF where he is a poor defender. I wouldn't throw him away but the lack of defensive talent/versatility just curbs my patience with his bat.
 

CDAV45

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We all can agree on though, if Bauers get another chance, it will be his last one in the Cleveland uniform. He either proves his haters wrong or he can go elsewhere.

Lindor didn't have good minor league numbers hitting wise compared to his pro numbers, so you cannot always go by minor league numbers.

Simulators like Jones at 1B the best, but at the same time, its rare to see a platoon guy at 1B especially when we dont have a right handed bat that can platoon with him. Jones's numbers against lefties in the minors is horrific (like a .600 OPS). Jones they will try in the corners first because of his arm before he would be at 1B.
I feel that Ed is referring to me when he mentioned Urshela, but maybe he wasn't. Either way I'm going to clarify or you can go back and reread my posts. Urshela had more than a fair chance to stick with the Indians. There were signs that he could hit, but his strike zone discipline lacked while he could put the bat on the ball due to his excellent hand/eye coordination and that lead to a lot of weak contact. This organization is at no fault IMO for allowing Gio to walk.

If there are no better options, then I don't mind Bauers getting another opportunity. I just think that we have to temper our expectations because he has never swung the bat like a corner IF/OF. He's carried a good OBP and has a good eye. I'm surprised he was a top 100 prospect and he should not get in the way of a better prospect/player like Naylor or Jones. He's a good example of an overhyped, new prospect that isn't all that IMO. For S&G's look at Urshela's minor league numbers and compare them to Bauers and tell me what you think.

Jones has a good arm and glove, but he lacks the range and speed to play OF. He's a 1B in waiting. I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong. I think he could be an outstanding 1B and his bat certainly profiles.
 

MadThinker88

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Jones has a good arm and glove, but he lacks the range and speed to play OF. He's a 1B in waiting. I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong. I think he could be an outstanding 1B and his bat certainly profiles.
You may well be correct regarding Jones in the OF but OF was where the Tribe had him playing with the alternate site & in the AZ instructional league this fall.
There were multiple video clips posted by the IndiansProspective twitter account of Jones doing OF drills with Will Benson down in AZ. Nothing showing Jones getting work at 1B..
 

Gson

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I feel that Ed is referring to me when he mentioned Urshela, but maybe he wasn't. Either way I'm going to clarify or you can go back and reread my posts. Urshela had more than a fair chance to stick with the Indians. There were signs that he could hit, but his strike zone discipline lacked while he could put the bat on the ball due to his excellent hand/eye coordination and that lead to a lot of weak contact. This organization is at no fault IMO for allowing Gio to walk.

If there are no better options, then I don't mind Bauers getting another opportunity. I just think that we have to temper our expectations because he has never swung the bat like a corner IF/OF. He's carried a good OBP and has a good eye. I'm surprised he was a top 100 prospect and he should not get in the way of a better prospect/player like Naylor or Jones. He's a good example of an overhyped, new prospect that isn't all that IMO. For S&G's look at Urshela's minor league numbers and compare them to Bauers and tell me what you think.

Jones has a good arm and glove, but he lacks the range and speed to play OF. He's a 1B in waiting. I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong. I think he could be an outstanding 1B and his bat certainly profiles.
Inre: Urshela.. You can go back to IBI site around the time Urshela was struggling to stay on the field.. and see that many of the knowledgeable posters were of the belief that given a clean bill of health and being healthy, Urshela could hit.. This was a pipe dream as several nagging and debilitating injuries contributed to his inability to remain on the field over so many chances..

Health is a skill.. Urshela didn't achieve it while with the tribe.. otherwise.. we'd be talking about the best defensive infield tribe fans have ever seen with Urshela 3B, Lindor SS, JRam 2B and Santana 1B...

What little there has been seen of Nolan Jones in the OF keeps the level of certainty to a minimum.. but, what can be said.. if Franmill Reyes was being given a chance to play in the outfield, take reasonable routes to fly balls.. make the routine play.. then Nolan Jones is certainly his equal.. Put a speed merchant in CF and your corner OF'ers defense becomes less critical.. At the end of the Day.. Jones' spot on the diamond may certainly be at 1B.. but, being able to move around a little.. play RF with his bazooka of an arm.. can add to the versatility the Tribe FO looks for and likes..

Thoughts?...
 

sportscoach

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I feel that Ed is referring to me when he mentioned Urshela, but maybe he wasn't. Either way I'm going to clarify or you can go back and reread my posts. Urshela had more than a fair chance to stick with the Indians. There were signs that he could hit, but his strike zone discipline lacked while he could put the bat on the ball due to his excellent hand/eye coordination and that lead to a lot of weak contact. This organization is at no fault IMO for allowing Gio to walk.

If there are no better options, then I don't mind Bauers getting another opportunity. I just think that we have to temper our expectations because he has never swung the bat like a corner IF/OF. He's carried a good OBP and has a good eye. I'm surprised he was a top 100 prospect and he should not get in the way of a better prospect/player like Naylor or Jones. He's a good example of an overhyped, new prospect that isn't all that IMO. For S&G's look at Urshela's minor league numbers and compare them to Bauers and tell me what you think.

Jones has a good arm and glove, but he lacks the range and speed to play OF. He's a 1B in waiting. I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong. I think he could be an outstanding 1B and his bat certainly profiles.
There was a lot of people saying they shouldn't have gotten rid of him and whatnot especially when the Lindor to New York rumors started. Mostly just being hindsighters rather than actually making good at the time arguments.

Personally I thought they got rid of him too quick, but Urshela actually didn't improve until being around a certain coach in the New York system. Sometimes it isn't always talent, but being with the right coaches. Urshela was needing the right coach at the end of the day, so he would have never succeeded here regardless of what peeps thought then and now.

@EdMonix11 how come do you think we have had a lot more issues developing position players (especially hitters) lately? The coaches and development? The way we draft? Or is it we are trying fine, just our pitching development is so good it makes them look bad on that side?

Jones has an issue hitting lefties and hasn't been great at 3B even though the potential is there. I really feel like corner OF at the current moment will be his spot since he at the current moment is projecting to be a platoon guy and likely will be that his first season or two and may never get out of his issues hitting lefties. He's going to get most of the innings this spring and this season in the OF I feel like. If that fails and guys like Bauers, Bradley etc cannot man 1B then Jones will get the chance to take that position.
 

CDAV45

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There was a lot of people saying they shouldn't have gotten rid of him and whatnot especially when the Lindor to New York rumors started. Mostly just being hindsighters rather than actually making good at the time arguments.

Personally I thought they got rid of him too quick, but Urshela actually didn't improve until being around a certain coach in the New York system. Sometimes it isn't always talent, but being with the right coaches. Urshela was needing the right coach at the end of the day, so he would have never succeeded here regardless of what peeps thought then and now.

@EdMonix11 how come do you think we have had a lot more issues developing position players (especially hitters) lately? The coaches and development? The way we draft? Or is it we are trying fine, just our pitching development is so good it makes them look bad on that side?

Jones has an issue hitting lefties and hasn't been great at 3B even though the potential is there. I really feel like corner OF at the current moment will be his spot since he at the current moment is projecting to be a platoon guy and likely will be that his first season or two and may never get out of his issues hitting lefties. He's going to get most of the innings this spring and this season in the OF I feel like. If that fails and guys like Bauers, Bradley etc cannot man 1B then Jones will get the chance to take that position.
It's hard to put your finger on the reason(s) a player "finds himself". Could be coaching, but guys develop differently. Sometimes it could be a single reason, or maybe it's the perfect storm.

Jones won't be 23 until next May. I'm not ready to label him a platoon player at this point, but it is something to keep an eye on going forward.

I'd like to respond to the question you asked Ed. I think the issue in developing position players has been their strategy of drafting a guy like Naquin in the 1st round in order to have more money for the later rounds. Prior to 2009 it was just poor drafting.

Here are the 1st round picks from 2000-2008:
2000- Corey Smith, Derek Thompson
2001- Alan Horne, JD Martin
2002- Jeremie Guthrie, Matt Whitney, Micah Schilling
2003- Michael Aubrey, Brad Snyder, Adam Miller
2004- Jeremy Sowers
2005- Trevor Crowe
2006- John Drennan
2007- Beau Mills
2008- Lonnie Chisenhall

Here are the 1st round picks since 2008:
2009- Alex White
2010- Drew Pomeranz
2011- Francisco Lindor
2012- Tyler Naquin
2013- Clint Frazier
2014- Brad Zimmer
2015- Brady Aiken, Triston McKenzie
2016- Will Benson
2017- No 1st round pick
2018- Bo Naylor
2019- Daniel Espino
2020- Carson Tucker
 

CDAV45

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You may well be correct regarding Jones in the OF but OF was where the Tribe had him playing with the alternate site & in the AZ instructional league this fall.
There were multiple video clips posted by the IndiansProspective twitter account of Jones doing OF drills with Will Benson down in AZ. Nothing showing Jones getting work at 1B..
It's my understanding that he also played 1B as well as LF. Maybe the info that I read is wrong.
 

sportscoach

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It's my understanding that he also played 1B as well as LF. Maybe the info that I read is wrong.
He actually hasn't played 1B as far as I know. He was a high school SS who moved to 3B in the Indians system. Reason why 1B has been mentioned is because his abilities fielding wise translates well to 1B. (Simulators have 1B being his best position, but thats all in theory still).
 

Gson

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It's hard to put your finger on the reason(s) a player "finds himself". Could be coaching, but guys develop differently. Sometimes it could be a single reason, or maybe it's the perfect storm.

Jones won't be 23 until next May. I'm not ready to label him a platoon player at this point, but it is something to keep an eye on going forward.

I'd like to respond to the question you asked Ed. I think the issue in developing position players has been their strategy of drafting a guy like Naquin in the 1st round in order to have more money for the later rounds. Prior to 2009 it was just poor drafting.

Here are the 1st round picks from 2000-2008:
2000- Corey Smith, Derek Thompson
2001- Alan Horne, JD Martin
2002- Jeremie Guthrie, Matt Whitney, Micah Schilling
2003- Michael Aubrey, Brad Snyder, Adam Miller
2004- Jeremy Sowers
2005- Trevor Crowe
2006- John Drennan
2007- Beau Mills
2008- Lonnie Chisenhall

Here are the 1st round picks since 2008:
2009- Alex White
2010- Drew Pomeranz
2011- Francisco Lindor
2012- Tyler Naquin
2013- Clint Frazier
2014- Brad Zimmer
2015- Brady Aiken, Triston McKenzie
2016- Will Benson
2017- No 1st round pick
2018- Bo Naylor
2019- Daniel Espino
2020- Carson Tucker
Assuming every one drafted with the Indians first position player pick from 2016 onward have yet to fully display what they're going to become, can see the errors of their ways.. Of course.. this is when you look at the draft results after the fact.. Using the 2009 onward draft classes.. it's pretty easy to say:

2009 Indians take Alex White @ # 15, overall.. but should have taken Mike Trout! Every team.. every single one should have..

2010 After taking Drew Pomeranz at # 5, only Christian Yelich late in the first round might have been a better choice.. might not.. Pomeranz's healthy issues & subsequent trade didn't really allow him realize being a long time ML'er with the Indians..

2011 Lindor at #8 was the right pick.. but, taking Dillon Howard @ # 67 when the Indians could have taken James McCann (# 76) would have solved the Indians catching issues..

2012 Naquin @ # 15 what a complete fail.. Giolito, Seagar, Wacha, Stroman, Lewis Brinson, Piscotty and or Joey Gallo all would have been better.. This was a POOR decision.. very poor... being cute with the $$$ was the cause.. and CLEFO FAILED !!

2013 Clint Frazier at # 5 was the pick.. Hopefully he can be returned via trade.. IDK, we'll see. .but after Frazier.. the Indians next pick was Dace "the Ace" Kime @ # 79.. Dace sucked.. The indians would have been WAY better to select Tyler O'Neil @ # 85

2014 Was Brad Zimmer @ # 21.. Wouldn't the Indians have been WAY better if they picked Matt Chapman @ # 25?

2015 Was Brady Aiken @ #17..was a "value" pick with a bum wing.. that never became anywhere close to what was thoughts.. Ke'Bryan Hayes or Walker Buehler or Mike Soroka all have proven to be vastly superior..

As usual.. there are always personnel decisions that can be second guessed.. Some were a matter of health.. some were a matter of the guy just plain sucked.. Anyone having a better crystal ball could sell it for an eight figure return to one of 30 ML clubs... And they'd pay for it HAPPILY !..

Thoughts?..
 

CDAV45

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He actually hasn't played 1B as far as I know. He was a high school SS who moved to 3B in the Indians system. Reason why 1B has been mentioned is because his abilities fielding wise translates well to 1B. (Simulators have 1B being his best position, but thats all in theory still).
Watching film of him, I find it difficult to imagine him running in the OF. He runs like Thome IMO. Wherever he plays, the bat will be nice to have in the lineup.
 

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