Luka Doncic

[blommen]

I agree with you regarding the experience, it absolutely matters. But Luka was able to get that experience BECAUSE he's just that good. Real Madrid isn't giving minutes on the floor to just any 15-year olds... Currently, Luka is only 20 and is already having one of the greatest seasons of all time. Even if he doesn't get any better than he is right now, if he's able to sustain this level of play for the rest of his career, you could put him in the same conversation as MJ/LeBron... However, in 9 years time, Doncic will still be in his twenties (!!!) and presumably will be significantly better than he is right now with YEARS of NBA experience, NBA diet & body building, as well as adding new things to his game. It's ridiculous.

Absolutely, I don't mean to imply that any 15 year old lottery pick would be as advanced as Doncic is if they had the same background. It cannot be overstated just how brilliant Luka is, but I think it's important to note when comparing him to LeBron just how stark the difference in experience is. LeBron much like Luka is a basketball genius and his physical profile combined with that intellect allowed him to transition to the NBA with flying colors. That is a very different transition from what Luka has done, and while Lukas background is in and of itself a testament to his innate brilliance I think it's also important to acknowledge how much that has also benefitted him.

They're both absolute savants, but their developmental trajectories are very different from on another.

 

[godfather]

Luka is putting up numbers, LeBron has NEVER put up in his entire career. Dude is knocking on the door averaging a fucking triple double at age 20.

Different era, or not, LeBron has NEVER done that, including in his prime. And he's not stat fucking stuffing it like Westbrook does. He's doing it really efficiently. He's not even averaging 35 minutes a game, and putting up insane numbers.

His dribble is ridiculous for a guy his size. It's better than LeBron's. No, its no asinine to say his ceiling is higher. Because it is.

Again, not saying that means he's going to be better than LeBron. It's hard to say that, because LeBron is top all-time at least. I think is the GOAT, as much of a dickhead he is..

So, it'd be going out on a limb, higher ceiling or not, to say Luka will end up being the GOAT.

 

[Jstock12]

And he's not stat fucking stuffing it like Westbrook does. He's doing it really efficiently. He's not even averaging 35 minutes a game, and putting up insane numbers.

Luka is also not screaming/yelling at his teammates if they deny him assists by not shooting after getting passed the ball. Those Westbrook triple-double seasons were a joke.

 

[ACisKING]

Luka is putting up numbers, LeBron has NEVER put up in his entire career. Dude is knocking on the door averaging a fucking triple double at age 20.

Different era, or not, LeBron has NEVER done that, including in his prime. And he's not stat fucking stuffing it like Westbrook does. He's doing it really efficiently. He's not even averaging 35 minutes a game, and putting up insane numbers.

His dribble is ridiculous for a guy his size. It's better than LeBron's. No, its no asinine to say his ceiling is higher. Because it is.

Again, not saying that means he's going to be better than LeBron. It's hard to say that, because LeBron is top all-time at least. I think is the GOAT, as much of a dickhead he is..

So, it'd be going out on a limb, higher ceiling or not, to say Luka will end up being the GOAT.

LeBron’s ceiling was to be the best player ever. IMO he fell slightly short of that but still wound up as top three all time. How can you have a higher ceiling than to be the best player ever?

I don’t think Luka actually has the ceiling of being the greatest player or all time. Maybe the greatest offensive player. But defense is half the game, and the greatest player ever should be an impact player on that end. It’s what separates Michael from Magic and Bird. As great as Luka will be I don’t foresee any future NBA Defensive First Team appearances for him. That being said, Luka is definitely better than LeBron was in his second year.

 

[Jstock12]

LeBron’s ceiling was to be the best player ever. IMO he fell slightly short of that but still wound up as top three all time. How can you have a higher ceiling than to be the best player ever?

I don’t think Luka actually has the ceiling of being the greatest player or all time. Maybe the greatest offensive player. But defense is half the game, and the greatest player ever should be an impact player on that end. It’s what separates Michael from Magic and Bird. As great as Luka will be I don’t foresee any future NBA Defensive First Team appearances for him. That being said, Luka is definitely better than LeBron was in his second year.

I'd argue that in this era defense is probably 25% of the game, not half. Greatest offensive player in the game has a far bigger impact than the greatest defender in the game.

 

[ACisKING]

I'd argue that in this era defense is probably 25% of the game, not half. Greatest offensive player in the game has a far bigger impact than the greatest defender in the game.

Great point. And I definitely agree with that. It’s why Luka is an elite player right now. And why Harden and Steph have been for years.

I’m just saying when we are taking about the greatest of all time, an impossibly high standard, defense should be part of the discussion.

 

[Lee]

LeBron’s ceiling was to be the best player ever. IMO he fell slightly short of that but still wound up as top three all time. How can you have a higher ceiling than to be the best player ever?

I don’t think Luka actually has the ceiling of being the greatest player or all time. Maybe the greatest offensive player. But defense is half the game, and the greatest player ever should be an impact player on that end. It’s what separates Michael from Magic and Bird. As great as Luka will be I don’t foresee any future NBA Defensive First Team appearances for him. That being said, Luka is definitely better than LeBron was in his second year.

I agree with everything but Lebron still has a chance to be the GOAT, he can easily win 2 more titles in LA, he is playing defense this year, and the 2016 NBA finals will remain the greatest playoff performance of all time for a very long time. Leading both teams in Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals and Blocks is so fucking insane i still cant believe it was accomplished.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

No way Kawhi or George can stop Doncic tonight.

 

[ACisKING]

I agree with everything but Lebron still has a chance to be the GOAT, he can easily win 2 more titles in LA, he is playing defense this year, and the 2016 NBA finals will remain the greatest playoff performance of all time for a very long time. Leading both teams in Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals and Blocks is so fucking insane i still cant believe it was accomplished.

You really think he can win two more titles? I’d put the over/under at 0.5. Obviously the Lakers can win the title but a lot of things have to break their way (staying healthy, adding a wing defender like Iggy, Kuzma becoming a legitimate third option, AD being willing to play heavy minutes at the five in playoffs, etc). If I had to bet I’d say that the Lakers won’t win any championships in the next few years - that’s no slight on the Lakers, but just respect for the quality of the field. Winning more than one seems unrealistic to me at LeBron’s age in a league with beasts like Giannis, Kawhi, etc.

 

[Lee]

You really think he can win two more titles? I’d put the over/under at 0.5. Obviously the Lakers can win the title but a lot of things have to break their way (staying healthy, adding a wing defender like Iggy, Kuzma becoming a legitimate third option, AD being willing to play heavy minutes at the five in playoffs, etc). If I had to bet I’d say that the Lakers won’t win any championships in the next few years - that’s no slight on the Lakers, but just respect for the quality of the field. Winning more than one seems unrealistic to me at LeBron’s age in a league with beasts like Giannis, Kawhi, etc.

Can and will are 2 different things, but yes he CAN win 3 more, will he? Probably not.

 

[Jstock12]

No way Kawhi or George can stop Doncic tonight.

If anyone can, it would be those 2 guys, no?

 

[blommen]

Stopping players of that caliber is never down to 1 or 2 players, however brilliant they may be defensively. It will always be a team effort specifically tailored for the player in question. Y'know, like a game plan.

Luka being truly unstoppable will get truly tested in the playoffs where teams have the time to focus on him and develop a gameplan for him. At that point it's a matter of Luka either dismantling said gameplan or adjusting for it.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

If anyone can, it would be those 2 guys, no?

Nope. It's a team effort and a good shot blocker or switch big man. Maybe.
They will be screened and Luka will have the same type of freedom to operate in the PnR. Also being savvy, star players will be scared to foul him. They might put Beverley on him, but if they do, Luka should try to just bully him.

 

[Jake]

Can't wait for this game with the Clippers tonight. Loving Luka's game but expect the Clippers to try to wear him down with various players.

 

[Bucketz]

You really think he can win two more titles? I’d put the over/under at 0.5. Obviously the Lakers can win the title but a lot of things have to break their way (staying healthy, adding a wing defender like Iggy, Kuzma becoming a legitimate third option, AD being willing to play heavy minutes at the five in playoffs, etc). If I had to bet I’d say that the Lakers won’t win any championships in the next few years - that’s no slight on the Lakers, but just respect for the quality of the field. Winning more than one seems unrealistic to me at LeBron’s age in a league with beasts like Giannis, Kawhi, etc.

And klay and steph being injured for majority/all of the season? I was a believer that if steph/klay did not get injured they could contend for the west..again. I’m surprised the Lakers are doing this well record wise. I don’t see their defense being sustainable though. Luka is definitely an MVP over LBJ in my opinion...and this whole notion of the “best player on the best team” is completely bullshit IMO because the title of the actual award is literally “most valuable player”. They need to change the name of the award if the expectation is best player on the best team.

Keeping money out of it, because good players will always be paid more, think of it as who brings the most value...so most bang for your buck...so most for the least (or with the least)...which player is outperforming their expectations given the situation they are in and the pieces around them??? That is the main question IMO. I know that is not how we all see it. Who is truly worth wins!?

Look through this lens and then tell me who the real MVP is to this point ? I’m really starting to live in the Giannis boat on this one. (Thank you for enduring my rant)