Minor League Week 14 Games Thread

[CATS44]

Restating the 9 player trade:

San Diego received Mike Clevinger, Greg Allen and a PTBNL (Matt Waldron):

-Mike Clevinger was injured and required TJ Surgery.. he'll be back in the spring of 2022..
-Greg Allen is now with the NYY's where he's their starting CF during Aaron Hicks' recovery
-Matt Waldron is in the Padres MiLB system at AA where he's a 24 y/o starting minor league pitcher..

Cleveland received Cal Quantrill, Josh Naylor, Austin Hedges, Gabriel Arias, Joey Cantillo and Owen Miller

-Cal Quantrill is in the process of establishing himself as a ML starting pitcher
-Josh Naylor has shown himself to be a slightly below average ML'er as a corner OF'er and 1B
-Austin Hedges is a solid defensive backstop that hits sporadically, at best.
-Owen Miller progressed through the MiLB system and has struggled offensively and defensively at the ML Level
-Joey Cantillo is a 21 y/o LHP that is progressing in MiLB... he should be promoted to a "full season team" later in 2021
-Gabriel Arias has progressed to AAA Columbus. He's approaching 1500 minor league at bats (he is what he is
going to be, at this point) and is well above average offensively and remains a solid to spectacular defensive player.

This is a good deal, so far.. It could be stated that evaluating the floor of this deal, the Indians get a win. More needs to be seen if this deal approaches the reverence shown for the Bartolo deal.. but it's not out of the question..

IMO this trade at worst will equal the CC and Lee trades. Out of a lot of names, both returned a long term piece that produced for years.

For CC it was Brantley. For Lee it was Cookie. In this case, it will be Quantrill. And Hedges has major value for a franchise like ours, which values defense and handling of pitchers more than most.

Anything else...Naylor, Arias, Miller, or Cantillo...is gravy....and could put it in Colon territory.

 

[Gson]

IMO this trade at worst will equal the CC and Lee trades. Out of a lot of names, both returned a long term piece that produced for years.

For CC it was Brantley. For Lee it was Cookie. In this case, it will be Quantrill. And Hedges has major value for a franchise like ours, which values defense and handling of pitchers more than most.

Anything else...Naylor, Arias, Miller, or Cantillo...is gravy....and could put it in Colon territory.

in the far rear view mirror of baseball talent evaluation.. it's quite easy to see this Brantley guy being considered a HUGE victory for the team acquiring him during his junior year in the Brewers system.. He's a border line hall of famer with long ties to each team he's been a part of.. and is about the most likeable guy / clubhouse presence you can find..

Cookie is a LOT of the same thing.. a truly endearing personality (in spite of his early "head hunter" reputation) and ferocious competitor who has overcome yips, cancer and life.. perhaps in a different order.. He's a solid/spectacular family oriented player with the heart of a lion..

Perhaps.. and it's only perhaps.. the Clevinger deal will play out for one of the guys returned like these two.. but there are similarities.. both of the guys (Cookie and Brantley).. weren't the main focus of the trades.. they were significant parts.. no doubt.. but when CC was traded.. it was for that burly, can't miss power source Matt LaPorta.. Cookie was the second guy in a deal that featured future ace Jason Knapp. In the Clevinger deal.. it might be a consideration that the Indians have fallen in love with Gabriel Arias, his arm.. his defense and.. and.. and.. The full effect of the deal.. typically not measured until three years plus the remainder of a season.. may reveal Cal Quantrill as the true gem.. or.. Joey Cantillo (my guess for second best piece in this deal... with Arias as the key/focus).. Hell.. Quantrill might end up as the best third piece of this deal.. and that aint shabby..

The determination of the Clevinger deal's outcome isn't going to be too far from now.. but.. it is still premature to call this deal as being in the same "ballpark" approaching the Bartolo for Lee/Phillips/Grady deal as the Brantley/CC & Carrasco/Lee deals..

I think you can appreciate a little patience.. but.. so far.. with what the Padres are receiving for their side of the deal.. it's a slam dunk going the Indians way.. but it's still too early..

 

[CATS44]

Almost totally agree, Gson.

But the Clevinger trade is different than the other three, in that we were in a window of contention. The other three were only for future considerations.

To be considered truly successful, this trade needs to provide immediate return. The destruction of our rotation eliminated this season as a consideration. But next year we need to replace Clevingers value for us and provide production elsewhere.

IMO Quantrill will provide the first part. And you did not mention Naylor, who may have been the key piece in the first place. Now, like Clevinger, he is hurt.

But there is a reason that Naylor was given a regular spot in the lineup, in spite of him having to play out of position, probably his third worst position. The FO viewed/views him as a key piece going forward.

 

[DickyLeftridge]

Agree with you all on the Clevinger deal. But what about the Bauer deal? Middle of the order power bat, young, fan favorite. I’ll take it. Plus the Puig rental. Moss and Logan Allen Sr have been meh.

Lindor deal imo we needed to hit most and it’s looking the iffyest, though obviously very early. And no I don’t care what Lindor does in NY post trade, he was lights out here. I understand dealing him. But the early EARLY returns are meh for me.

 

[Urban]

Agree with you all on the Clevinger deal. But what about the Bauer deal? Middle of the order power bat, young, fan favorite. I’ll take it. Plus the Puig rental. Moss and Logan Allen Sr have been meh.

Lindor deal imo we needed to hit most and it’s looking the iffyest, though obviously very early. And no I don’t care what Lindor does in NY post trade, he was lights out here. I understand dealing him. But the early EARLY returns are meh for me.

I guess I disagree here. The Indians had the least leverage in this trade with only 1 year of Lindor left at a high salary coming off a mediocre shortened season. The return backs that idea when 2 of the 4 players had a combined 5 games of minor league experience between the two of them.

 

[CATS44]

Returns that contain mostly prospects aways look meh the first year.

And yet, our starting SS has produced on a par with the Mets starting SS.

 

[xmasbuck]

IMO this trade at worst will equal the CC and Lee trades. Out of a lot of names, both returned a long term piece that produced for years.

For CC it was Brantley. For Lee it was Cookie. In this case, it will be Quantrill. And Hedges has major value for a franchise like ours, which values defense and handling of pitchers more than most.

Anything else...Naylor, Arias, Miller, or Cantillo...is gravy....and could put it in Colon territory.

since that trade Lee has produced 28.5 WAR, Cookie 21.6 - Lee hasnt pitched in 7 years

 

[CATS44]

since that trade Lee has produced 28.5 WAR, Cookie 21.6 - Lee hasnt pitched in 7 years

For the 1 yr plus 2 months that of Lee that we traded away, he put up about 9.2 fWAR.

Over the next nine years we got 25.2 fWAR out of Cookie.

For the approximate 3 fWAR over two months of Sabathia, we received 19.8 fWAR in ten years from Brantley.

For the approximate 3 fWAR in 1 yr and two months of Bauer, we have received about 2 fWAR from Franmil, with years of control left.

For 2 yrs and 2 month and two months of Clevinger ( about .2 fWAR so far) we have received about 1.3 fWAR from Quantrill...and he has years of control left.

If nobody else from either the Bauer or Clevinger trades work out, we will still make out like bandits just from Franmil and Quantrill.

It doesn't matter what Bauer and Clevinger do from now on...and neither are looking good...because we didn't trade away all the future years, because they weren't ours to trade.

 

[Benway]

I'm freaking Stoked about Quantrill. I thought he was the Deal last year, but then he stumbled out of the gate, so I immediately gave up on him. All is forgiven, Cal!

 

[ZinAZ]

IMO this trade at worst will equal the CC and Lee trades. Out of a lot of names, both returned a long term piece that produced for years.

For CC it was Brantley. For Lee it was Cookie. In this case, it will be Quantrill. And Hedges has major value for a franchise like ours, which values defense and handling of pitchers more than most.

Anything else...Naylor, Arias, Miller, or Cantillo...is gravy....and could put it in Colon territory.

Wait you saying that the team that did not have a CF on the roster in April values defense?