MLB Lock-Out is Finally Freakin’ Over

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sportscoach

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In person viewing at the outrageously priced and government purchased venues continues to dwindle, albeit, slowly.. Like most of the players contracts, the change is lazily moving, but, at a rate that is more than manageable and just a shade slower than the in person attendance is dwindling... At most.. a couple three / four percent annually in both directions in a twelve plus BILLION dollar business.. The mass media outlets contribute more than any other revenue stream while online streaming ventures are growing faster than ANYTHING. So.. when someone whines about the lack of fannies in the seats (equated to not enough money to spend on players) or you're one of the hundreds reading whatever Paul Hoynes wants to post in an article on attendance..I'm pretty certain Mr. Dolan will happily have each edition framed for Hoynesie's office..

The cap is tied to the revenue.. just as @jup pointed out..

Think about this.. the Dodgers' affiliations with their local revenue streams generate three times as much as ALL the players on their teams, ( minors included), the management group, the on field, instructional, scouting, R & D, etc, ad infinitum are paid for with the profits of the club.. and that's before a single ticket is purchased.. It's not a mystery to see why the players are adversarial.. They don't know how much for sure.. but it's a helluva lot more than even half of what they're getting.. and there isn't a golden goose without the players...

The only area of cost that is out of control is the free agent players.. they continue onward and upward with an unfettered rise in salary. This is serious enough to kill this golden goose.. that is the issue.. Francisco Lindor at $ 34.1 MM/year.. up from $ 20.. and that's after a DOWN season.. a 70% increase !. for what?. Trevor Bauer.. $ 42 MM and a player opt in @ $ 32 MM.. outrageous.. The good news on these kinds of deals.. there are so few of them.. An accounting projection stated (i don't recall or have the source for this, but, I will look for it) that the Owners crush it at fully burdened player costs at 53 % of total revenues.. and do pretty well at 58 % of total revenues.. Right now..the Players are getting about 43 %. This number might be high..

If baseball (players and owners) is to survive its fiscal insanity.. owners need to reign in the "splash" spending.. and get a model that represents a cooperative understanding and system that the players can live with.. Right now..it's just nuts !... btw.. that's what this CBA is about.. We'll see...

@ 180 MM per team w/ 30 teams.. that's % 5.4 billion.. where did the other 6.6 Billion go?..

@Lee where ya hiding the other 6.6 billion? We all know you are hiding it somewhere!

All joking aside, there needs some fixing to the system overall, but can we find something that won't cause a strike/work shortage that's within reason? Baseball will be shooting themselves in the foot (almost like shooting themselves in the leg) if they don't get things figured out in time. I don't like nor trust Manfred either, so I just feel like nothing will get done to change things in the direction the fans want in theory at the end of the day...
 

TomD

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A few bullet points from the article for those that aren't subscribers.


  1. Meanwhile, in August, the league proposed to effectively send the luxury-tax threshold in the opposite direction, to $180 million; to increase the penalties for exceeding it as well; but to also implement a soft floor, a penalty for teams who do not spend at least $100 million.
  2. As previously reported, the union’s first proposal would have allowed players to become eligible for arbitration after two years, instead of three. The union in May also proposed a change to draft order, increases in the minimum salary, raises to the CBT thresholds, changes to revenue sharing between clubs, changes to the way service time is calculated, and bonuses for players who have yet to reach arbitration. Under certain circumstances, some players would be able to reach free agency sooner than six years, as well.
  3. The league also proposed to eliminate salary arbitration in favor of a predetermined pool of money to be distributed to players. Under MLB’s proposal, players would become free agents once they hit age 29 1/2, which might help some players who would otherwise have become free agents later, but hurt the best players who presumably would, under the current system, become free agents at a younger age. (Players would also be walking out into a market where teams might be less inclined to spend than they are now, because the CBT threshold would be lower and the penalties for exceeding it would be higher.)
 

CATS44

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Two things that help offset the imbalance in payrolls is divisional play and unbalanced schedules. For a lot of teams, esp in the Midwest, they act as field levelers.

Beware of any proposal to change them.

*************

I wonder how much anyone on either side cares how much a work stoppage would hurt baseball. There has been a lot written about how both sides 'understand' how much the last work stoppage hurt, and how much Covid hurt, but how much does anyone player or any one international corporation really care?

Is there a bigger incentive to fix the problems baseball faces or to 'win' the negotiations?

Since the owners refuse to open there books, which is their right, and the players want to make multi millionaires out of 23 yr olds, and billionaires out of those a little older, which is their right, I think the emphasis is still on winning.

MLB appears to want to go the way of boxing. Put every major event on pay per view, and watch the sport die.

I used to watch the weekly fight nights on TV, where I got to see a champion almost every week, esp the middleweight like Graziano, Lamott, and the original Sugar Ray. Saturday afternoons featured title fights in multiple classes. And then the Heavyweights at 10 PM three or four times a year.

I could name every champion and most of the contenders, because I saw them all on TV.

Then came Ali-Frazier, which I paid ten bucks to see in downtown Columbus. From then on things went downhill fast.

The title bouts results were on the front sports page. Not anymore.

Now, I can't name one champion, because they aren't on TV anymore. I, and millions like me, have found other things to do. We can't care about what we can't see on TV or can't hear on the radio.
 

MadThinker88

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From a Labor Relations standpoint, he is not wrong.
Unfortunately most fans/ people do not understand that.
Its a good sign that the sides have been meeting and working on this OUTSIDE OF THE MEDIA SPOTLIGHT.
However the more that this process plays out in the media is a BAD SIGN.

Its better to just get the finished sausage, not see the entire process how its prepared and made...
 

Gson

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From a Labor Relations standpoint, he is not wrong.
Unfortunately most fans/ people do not understand that.
Its a good sign that the sides have been meeting and working on this OUTSIDE OF THE MEDIA SPOTLIGHT.
However the more that this process plays out in the media is a BAD SIGN.

Its better to just get the finished sausage, not see the entire process how its prepared and made...
yeah... you don't ever want to see how sausage or pickles are made..

The mere fact that there have been a couple pair of proposals (one an adjustment to their first).. doesn't bode well AT ALL.. Couple this with the mad rush to get "some" contracts signed by other clubs.. gives the belief the work stoppage track is laid.. and it could stay that way for a long time... sad.. really..
 

Criznit

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Quick question.

How does a lockout or labor stoppage affect the minor leagues? Would it be business as usual or....
 

MadThinker88

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Not entirely sure but players not in the union (ie the vast majority of minor league players) should be business as usual..
 

DCTribefan

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Latest on lockout from Jeff Passon in ESPN+
I have excerpted below from the article.

What's on the table?

Not a whole lot yet, which is frustrating for all involved. The two sides have made their positions clear. The players want bigger paydays earlier in their careers, more competitive integrity, no service-time manipulation and fewer artificial restraints on players via the competitive-balance tax (CBT) and draft-pick compensation. Among the league's objectives: a static amount of spending on players, expanded playoffs, an international draft and on-field changes.

MLB has offered to raise the CBT slightly after the union rejected a proposal of a $100 million salary floor -- and lowering the CBT threshold from the current $210 million number to $180 million. With that raise, though, could come more onerous penalties for those that exceed it, which the union worries would negate any increase. The league also has shown a willingness to get rid of direct draft-pick compensation. Currently, teams can tender players a one-year qualifying offer -- this year it was for $18.4 million -- and if players reject it, the team that signs them is penalized via the loss of a draft pick. Ending that direct draft-pick compensation would, in theory, loosen the restraints.


Other concepts the league introduced in recent bargaining sessions included an NBA-style draft lottery, the implementation of a universal designated hitter and an increase in minimum salaries. The lottery could incentivize teams against tanking, addressing the competitive-integrity issue that players have said is vital. The proposed bump from the current minimum salary of $570,500 a year was minimal -- though the real hope among a large number of players is less about addressing the minimum itself and more about opening up options for elite performance to be rewarded.

While MLB has talked about a bonus pool for players with less than three years of service time, marrying that to something like a reimagining of the arbitration system -- in which there would be a pool of money for arbitration-eligible players divvied up based on a concept like Wins Above Replacement -- went over poorly when the league introduced it.

There are wins to be had for players. And there are wins, such as expanding the playoffs, that owners believe are legitimate possibilities. A deal will come together when the sides narrow down what's realistic amid all of the dreaming that slows down all bargaining sessions.

The hope is that this week more clearly defines those lines, so that even if there is a lockout, the path to a deal will come more easily into focus.

 

Criznit

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Todays meeting only lasted 7 minutes.. Ouch.. This might get really really ugly..

2:04PM: This afternoon’s session between the two sides concluded after seven minutes, according to ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan (Twitter links). There won’t be any more negotiations today, and the lockout is expected to begin this evening once the current CBA officially expires.

 

bob2the2nd

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Todays meeting only lasted 7 minutes.. Ouch.. This might get really really ugly..

2:04PM: This afternoon’s session between the two sides concluded after seven minutes, according to ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan (Twitter links). There won’t be any more negotiations today, and the lockout is expected to begin this evening once the current CBA officially expires.

The writing has been on the wall for a while this was going to get ugly.
 

sportscoach

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Todays meeting only lasted 7 minutes.. Ouch.. This might get really really ugly..

2:04PM: This afternoon’s session between the two sides concluded after seven minutes, according to ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan (Twitter links). There won’t be any more negotiations today, and the lockout is expected to begin this evening once the current CBA officially expires.


I guess they don't 100% care... at least that is what it almost feels like in some ways.
 

CDAV45

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There are examples that work for other professional sport leagues. Anyway, while the FA prices are ridiculous, a big problem with the large contracts is the lack of production when paying said player $30M/yr. I may not be in the majority here, but pay and performance should go hand in hand. I don't give a shit if you're a first year player or a 15 yr vet.

We as fans are the ones getting fucked in this deal. The owners are going to get paid regardless. When things get more expensive for them they just pass it on down the line. So in order to "right the ship" one of 2 things needs to happen(from a fan perspective preferably both in order to keep it affordable to the general public). The league becomes a single owner of all the teams and disperses the money evenly or players' salaries get capped. I can wish in one hand and you know what in the other. I don't for one second expect either of those things to happen.

Greed and the loss of rationality ruins everything in time.
 

BimboColesHair

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They definitely care.

Both groups know they can't take this too deep into the winter.

They have a chance to make baseball more interesting and exciting for the future...they also have a chance to set it back a decade by carrying this too long.
 

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