NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor' cha

[Maximus]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

I think there were 2 camps most Buckeye fans fell into:

1.) The people who bought the spin that espin, SI, etc, were selling and were generally worried about major sanctions

2.) The people who knew that espn, SI, etc, were full of shit from the start.

The former are feeling pure relief. The latter are feeling pure schadenfreude. Both are great feelings.

I think there were 2 camps most Buckeye fans fell into:

1.) The people who bought the spin that espin, SI, etc, were selling and were generally worried about major sanctions Doug

2.) The people who knew that espn, SI, etc, were full of shit from the start. b00bie, me, everyone who thought about it rationally

The former are feeling pure relief. The latter are feeling pure schadenfreude. Both are great feelings.

You two are trying to re-write history. For a good laugh, read this thread - http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?36234-Tressel-knew-of-gear-scheme-last-April

Yes, there were two groups.

1) The realists that understood back in March the seriousness of the situation. We predicted early on that Tressel would never coach again...for that we were attacked and laughed at.

2) The group that was in denial for months. They claimed Yahoo Sports was full of shit b/c it used an unnamed source. Then they claimed Tressel shouldn't believe the "sleazy lawyer". B00bie repeats 100 times that "Tressel never lied". Then Tress was just protecting a federal investigation. One constant theme was attacking the messenger, while ignoring the message and the facts that were undeniable.

Seriously, read that thread, it's a riot. Make fun of Doug all you want, but he was right on target with his assessment most of the way, while posters like b00bie and cmstuffy were wrong about 90% of the time...heads in the sand.

 

[Chris]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

So when a jackass ex-player goes off in the media about a decade of consistent money laundering, then a week later retracts his statement... the "rational" thing to do is assume that the guy made the whole thing up? Are you Johnnie Cochrane?

There was a lot of smoke surrounding the OSU program. The investigation could have gone either way. The final decision was certainly fortunate in OSU's favor, but it seems the athletic department lost some autonomy in the process.

I don't know how much you read around, but forums were pretty much rife with rabid OSU haters thinking this was the end of OSU football for the next two decades. Turns out, they were irrational and wrong, and a lot of this "smoke" was just that... smoke.

If you can't see that, well, nothing I say will help your eyes.

 

[Chris]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

You two are trying to re-write history. For a good laugh, read this thread - http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?36234-Tressel-knew-of-gear-scheme-last-April

Yes, there were two groups.

1) The realists that understood back in March the seriousness of the situation. We predicted early on that Tressel would never coach again...for that we were attacked and laughed at.

2) The group that was in denial for months. They claimed Yahoo Sports was full of shit b/c it used an unnamed source. Then they claimed Tressel shouldn't believe the "sleazy lawyer". B00bie repeats 100 times that "Tressel never lied". Then Tress was just protecting a federal investigation. One constant theme was attacking the messenger, while ignoring the message and the facts that were undeniable.

Seriously, read that thread, it's a riot. Make fun of Doug all you want, but he was right on target with his assessment most of the way, while posters like b00bie and cmstuffy were wrong about 90% of the time...heads in the sand.

I'm not going to bother, because I Remember it well enough. I Remember Doug flipping the shit every time something new came out and screaming from the top of the mountain about how "Bad" this was. And how it was going to get so much worse and we "are fucked." :chuckles:

Looks like he was wrong about that. What's all this stuff he was right about? :rofl:

Nobody is saying bad stuff wasn't going on. What I am saying is looks like the people who didn't buy the bullshit from SI and ESPN and actually sat down and thought about this and sifted through the crap were right all along: this is not the end of OSU football, life is going on, and the football program will be fine. If anyone is trying to rewrite history, it's you. I don't know what the hell this charade is you're running but some of us aren't buying it. Your failure to grasp what b00bie and I are saying is frustrating.

edit: Decided to flip through the thread a bit and I can't speak for other people ... but what I saw of myself was pretty much me upset about the violations, but waiting for more information to come out and not jumping to conclusions, and then me trying to quell the massive exaggeration going on by Doug and others (not just on RCF, but in the media too).

Sounds like I had my head in the sand, for sure! *rolls eyes* All the cumstuffy jokes in the world don't make your point any more rational, Max. Here's some Doug Soup for you:

This is just bad, bad, bad. It will not end well.

And further still; did he actually forward the emails to the OSU compliance department and they did nothing as well? I HOPE NOT. If this turns out there is more to this entire fiasco, OSU can forget about any bowls, etc, for a very long time.

Jumping to conclusions is all he is guilty of. Unfortunately for you, that's what I was reprimanding him for.

Quote by me, look at my head in the sand!

despite his horrible mistake that yes, possibly should cost him his job.

Well, glad I took the time to read the thread, Max, it's really opening my eyes...

In all seriousness, arguing about our past "reactions" to this news is stupid. However, with this new piece of news, I felt like giving a shout out to everybody (..Doug) who was literally going ape shit and talking about how fucked we were in every single post and acting like Bill Paxton from Aliens (hence the meme :chuckles: ) every other minute.

 

[Maximus]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

I'm not going to bother, because I Remember it well enough. I Remember Doug flipping the shit every time something new came out and screaming from the top of the mountain about how "Bad" this was. And how it was going to get so much worse and we "are fucked."
Looks like he was wrong about that. What's all this stuff he was right about?

Wait, you don't think the last 4 months has been "bad"? It was very bad. Sure it could've been worse, but this was a nightmare. Just because we didn't get the death penalty doesn't mean everything is great again and back to normal. It's been a PR mess and no doubt will hurt recruiting. We lost one of the best coaches in the country...that's extremely "bad", right? We had to vacate the last season...that's "bad" too. Many of you homers denied any of that would happen. It's going to take years to get back to where we were. This whole saga was a disaster...and its not necessarily over. We still havent heard if there's going to be additional penalties.

Your failure to grasp what b00bie and I are saying is frustrating.

I grasped what you guys were saying. Your inability to grasp that Tressel commited serious violations, that he was doomed as a coach and that the program would take a hit was frustrating. Almost everyone on here knew Tress's days were numbered before you two.

Not sure you guys are thinking. How do you prove this? How is this any more than he said she said?

That tells me they have nothing as of now.

I'd be shocked if he is fired.

I don't think Tressel lied to anyone, so people driving the "he lied" truck need to pump the brakes.

You still have yet to even talk about how Tressel lied....
He didn't lie...at all.
You seem to have this vendetta against him....For the life of me I can't understand why.

Doesn't look like he lied to me....

He should be fired for not taking a tip from some douchebag lawyer seriously enough?
Please...

Had he lied...he would have been fired.
He really didn't lie....He just did not say anything

The emails I have seen, and I don't see how one can assume that Tress has to take the word of this attorney/the criminal (Rife) as fact.

Denial...

 

[Chris]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

People talking shit about my school is bad...but it isn't "football program is now crippled" type of bad, nor is that what is going to happen to OSU. I can put up with people talking shit if in the end our program is not going to be beheaded like Doug, you, and whoever else seemed to think it was (and are now scrambling to act as if you didn't).

I won't speak for b00bie's quotes, all I know is b00bie had been saying they wouldn't get hit hard and he turned out right. Yeah, speaking of denial, you refuse to acknowledge that. But b00bie can fight his own battles. My quotes you posted (all 3 of them) were me basically waiting for more information. I was surprised Tressel resigned, yes. As were a lot of people. I am certainly glad he did, at this point. Me saying I'd be shocked if he gets fired does not back up your point, at all, nor do my quotes that were basically me telling people to calm the fuck down we know nothing as of yet.

So, you were saying? Oh, right:

I grasped what you guys were saying. Your inability to grasp that Tressel commited serious violations, that he was doomed as a coach and that the program would take a hit was frustrating. Almost everyone on here knew Tress's days were numbered before you two.

You say you grasp what I was saying, and then proceed to...totally butcher what I said. :rofl: Never did I say these were not serious violations. Didn't I even just post quotes of me saying he "probably should be fired" in the very thread you asked me to peruse?

So again...you were saying you grasped my points?

 

[AZ_]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

Wait, you don't think the last 4 months has been "bad"? It was very bad. Sure it could've been worse, but this was a nightmare. Just because we didn't get the death penalty doesn't mean everything is great again and back to normal. It's been a PR mess and no doubt will hurt recruiting. We lost one of the best coaches in the country...that's extremely "bad", right? We had to vacate the last season...that's "bad" too. Many of you homers denied any of that would happen. It's going to take years to get back to where we were. This whole saga was a disaster...and its not necessarily over. We still havent heard if there's going to be additional penalties.





I grasped what you guys were saying. Your inability to grasp that Tressel commited serious violations, that he was doomed as a coach and that the program would take a hit was frustrating. Almost everyone on here knew Tress's days were numbered before you two.




















Denial...

Neat.

How many of those quotes were taken from before we had ALL of the facts present?

And for the record, people who still refer to this whole "scandal" like it was some elaborate plot to fool the NCAA are dreaming this stuff up in their heads. Sensationalism to the fullest extent.

And they STILL could have kept Tressel through all this if the athletic department didn't royally fuck things up to start...then make amends by throwing Tressel to the wolves.

 

[Chris]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

How many of those quotes were taken from before we had ALL of the facts present?

Exactly my point. So cooler heads were saying "Wait for more information before burying the program" and it turns out some of the accusations were TRUE and PROVEN (some were not proven adequately) and Max is going to go back and act like those are damning quotes or something? :chuckles:

sigh.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

I don't know how much you read around, but forums were pretty much rife with rabid OSU haters thinking this was the end of OSU football for the next two decades. Turns out, they were irrational and wrong, and a lot of this "smoke" was just that... smoke.

If you can't see that, well, nothing I say will help your eyes.

My sources on all of the OSU drama weren't available for you to read. I did know that some of my sources had a vested interest in OSU getting the book thrown at them for recruiting purposes, and I knew that the OSU sources were veering too far to the other side. I just asked questions and then typed. I have no idea what forums were rife with.

When Max posted that article about ESPN's true intentions, I actually had something to offer these sources that they generally didn't know. Other than that, I really didn't pay attention to much of anything forums had to say about it. I just relayed information.

One thing I've noticed about forums over the years: plenty of people take a wild stab at guessing the truth. When they come up winners in a debate, they like to act like they knew it was a 100% lock. If you have the opportunity to talk to real insiders on the subject, they would never be as 100% sure at any stage in the process. Too many factors change. I hope in this process my posts came across as neutral but informative.

 

[Chris]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

My sources on all of the OSU drama weren't available for you to read. I did know that some of my sources had a vested interest in OSU getting the book thrown at them for recruiting purposes, and I knew that the OSU sources were veering too far to the other side. I just asked questions and then typed. I have no idea what forums were rife with.

When Max posted that article about ESPN's true intentions, I actually had something to offer these sources that they generally didn't know. Other than that, I really didn't pay attention to much of anything forums had to say about it. I just relayed information.

One thing I've noticed about forums over the years: plenty of people take a wild stab at guessing the truth. When they come up winners in a debate, they like to act like they knew it was a 100% lock. If you have the opportunity to talk to real insiders on the subject, they would never be as 100% sure at any stage in the process. Too many factors change. I hope in this process my posts came across as neutral but informative.

I wasn't knocking you or anything. I obviously never was "100% OSU will get off without too much trouble!" I wasn't claiming that. I just thought...it would not be nearly as serious as some thought. I thought that. Not trying to act like I'm some psychic or some shit. :chuckles:

As for forums, I frequent a few, mostly just read them besides this and another one but they were crawling with OSU haters predicting (and asking for) anything from death penalty to 5 year bowl bans and all types of insane shit.

 

[tedginnjr]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

Oh, I know. Because how in the world could the largest, one of the best academic schools in the country, and one that consistently plays on national television and ranks consistently in the Top 10 every single year possibly be a draw to star high school athletes without doing something shady to get and keep them there. [rolls eyes]

As Pryor rides in in yet another sportscar...

 

[Soda]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

Gene Chizik is doing a "tweetchat" on ESPN today, mid NCAA investigation. Propaganda, and some of you have and still are pathetically adhereing to their and SI's claims. Going down with the ship much?

 

[Tornicade]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

Next Up. after several deep cover investigations. It has been found a common occurrence of unnamed players jaywalking to a store to get ridiculously low priced books. after much research we have found no tickets issued to these players in 20 years. OSU has also failed to investigate the pricing of the books. look for more NCAA violations soon.

The shady business dealings and illegal street crossing is believe to have taken place here in the worst neighborhood in Columbus

Stay tuned more to follow. Players were seen selling DVD's on the premises and this was spotted in the back of the store

One witness proclaimed " I walked in one day and there were players at the counter exchanging money for DVD's at the register. I didnt feel like I was supposed to be seeing this."

 

[Lee]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

Neat.

How many of those quotes were taken from before we had ALL of the facts present?

And for the record, people who still refer to this whole "scandal" like it was some elaborate plot to fool the NCAA are dreaming this stuff up in their heads. Sensationalism to the fullest extent.

And they STILL could have kept Tressel through all this if the athletic department didn't royally fuck things up to start...then make amends by throwing Tressel to the wolves.

They couldnt have kept Tressel. He lied to the NCAA and the university. He played players he knew should be ineligable. I said from the begining this was a big deal and Tressel should be fired. You got mad at me (and others) for saying such stupid things. I also pointed out thought that this isnt the end of OSU football. I pointed out that OSU will remain a top 5 job because of the size and strength of the alumni and the incredible recruiting base they enjoy with very little competition.

I still stand by both of those. I did predict one bowl lost and about 20 scholarships. We will see if my original prediction comes true, but one bowl game will not kill a program like OSU.

Use Miami as an example, after 4 national championships the last one being in '91, they got 30 scholorships taken away in the 96 season for 2 years. The missed a bowl in 97, but by 2000 they were already competing for a national championship and won the championship in 2001. Thing is, OSU has even better traditions and a better recruiting base then even Miami. For those that argue, OSU is the only major program in Ohio, Miami recruits South FL, but they compete with 2 other major schools for the top prosepects.

My point? I still think what OSU did, especially Tressel was very bad, but the death of OSU football? Come on, they werent in the same league of violators as SMU and thats the only program that has turly been shut down and never recovered. OSU football will be fine, you will have 2 years of lumps and looks like i might have been wrong about losing a bowl, but you will lose 20 or so scholarships.

 

[Tornicade]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

They couldnt have kept Tressel. He lied to the NCAA and the university. He played players he knew should be ineligable. I said from the begining this was a big deal and Tressel should be fired. You got mad at me (and others) for saying such stupid things. I also pointed out thought that this isnt the end of OSU football. I pointed out that OSU will remain a top 5 job because of the size and strength of the alumni and the incredible recruiting base they enjoy with very little competition.

I still stand by both of those. I did predict one bowl lost and about 20 scholarships. We will see if my original prediction comes true, but one bowl game will not kill a program like OSU.

Use Miami as an example, after 4 national championships the last one being in '91, they got 30 scholorships taken away in the 96 season for 2 years. The missed a bowl in 97, but by 2000 they were already competing for a national championship and won the championship in 2001. Thing is, OSU has even better traditions and a better recruiting base then even Miami. For those that argue, OSU is the only major program in Ohio, Miami recruits South FL, but they compete with 2 other major schools for the top prosepects.

My point? I still think what OSU did, especially Tressel was very bad, but the death of OSU football? Come on, they werent in the same league of violators as SMU and thats the only program that has turly been shut down and never recovered. OSU football will be fine, you will have 2 years of lumps and looks like i might have been wrong about losing a bowl, but you will lose 20 or so scholarships.

really
In 1994, Tony Russell, a former UM academic advisor, pleaded guilty to helping more than 80 student athletes, 57 of whom were football players, falsify Pell Grant applications in exchange for kickbacks from the players themselves. The scandal dated all the way back to 1989 and secured more than $220,000 in federal grant money. Federal officials later said that Russell had engineered "perhaps the largest centralized fraud ... ever committed" in the history of the Pell Grant program.[69][70]

In late 1995, the NCAA concluded that, in addition to the fraudulent Pell Grants facilitated by Russell, the university had also provided or allowed over $400,000 worth of other, improper payments to Miami football players. The NCAA also found that the university had failed to wholly implement its drug testing program, and permitted three football student-athletes to compete without being subject to the required disciplinary measures specified in the policy. Finally, the NCAA concluded, the university had lost institutional control over the football program.[71] Miami docked itself seven scholarships as part of a self-imposed sanction in 1995, and the NCAA took away another 24 scholarships over the next two years. As a result of the scandal, Sports Illustrated's Alexander Wolff wrote a cover story that Miami should at least temporarily shut down its football program.[69] Further, On June 21, 1996, Miami football players broke into the apartment of the captain of Miami's track team and struck him repeatedly. In response, Davis suspended three key players for the coming 1996 season. Davis also suspended two other players who were involved in separate violent incidents.[72]

The fact that you would compare the two, shows how incredibly obtuse and overstatement of the OSU violations are.
http://www2.nbc4i.com/mgmedia/file/127/osu-tressel-emails/
Once again this wasnt result of an NCAA investigation.
The Ohio State University Self reported the Violations upon receiving the letter from the Department of Justice.
OSU then self reported that there were e mails that implied Tressel knew about the matter 6 months before.

Once again the University has done everything it can to demonstrate that they are on top of things and the matter was about a coach getting a questionable e mail and making the wrong decision.

When Tressel was actually asked. He didnt lie he told them he had been aware of it.

Ultimately the NCAA themselves deemed the violations so severe. They let them play.

Also if the NCAA really wanted to stop this from happening everywhere they would not allow PLayers to sign memorbilia at all. Of course they wouldnt do that. those autograph signing generate sells for their trademark and they would lose revenue.

This matter was bout players going out on their own and profiting on their na,e. it was not facilitated nor endorsed by any Osu Official or representative and from the wording it most likely appeared to Tressel to be nothing worse than a secondary violation.

anything more than 5 scholarships would be excessive and without justification.

 

[Lee]

Re: NCAA tells Ohio State it finds no new violations; won't face 'failure to monitor'

really
In 1994, Tony Russell, a former UM academic advisor, pleaded guilty to helping more than 80 student athletes, 57 of whom were football players, falsify Pell Grant applications in exchange for kickbacks from the players themselves. The scandal dated all the way back to 1989 and secured more than $220,000 in federal grant money. Federal officials later said that Russell had engineered "perhaps the largest centralized fraud ... ever committed" in the history of the Pell Grant program.[69][70]

In late 1995, the NCAA concluded that, in addition to the fraudulent Pell Grants facilitated by Russell, the university had also provided or allowed over $400,000 worth of other, improper payments to Miami football players. The NCAA also found that the university had failed to wholly implement its drug testing program, and permitted three football student-athletes to compete without being subject to the required disciplinary measures specified in the policy. Finally, the NCAA concluded, the university had lost institutional control over the football program.[71] Miami docked itself seven scholarships as part of a self-imposed sanction in 1995, and the NCAA took away another 24 scholarships over the next two years. As a result of the scandal, Sports Illustrated's Alexander Wolff wrote a cover story that Miami should at least temporarily shut down its football program.[69] Further, On June 21, 1996, Miami football players broke into the apartment of the captain of Miami's track team and struck him repeatedly. In response, Davis suspended three key players for the coming 1996 season. Davis also suspended two other players who were involved in separate violent incidents.[72]

The fact that you would compare the two, shows how incredibly obtuse and overstatement of the OSU violations are.
http://www2.nbc4i.com/mgmedia/file/127/osu-tressel-emails/
Once again this wasnt result of an NCAA investigation.
The Ohio State University Self reported the Violations upon receiving the letter from the Department of Justice.
OSU then self reported that there were e mails that implied Tressel knew about the matter 6 months before.

Once again the University has done everything it can to demonstrate that they are on top of things and the matter was about a coach getting a questionable e mail and making the wrong decision.

When Tressel was actually asked. He didnt lie he told them he had been aware of it.

Ultimately the NCAA themselves deemed the violations so severe. They let them play.

Also if the NCAA really wanted to stop this from happening everywhere they would not allow PLayers to sign memorbilia at all. Of course they wouldnt do that. those autograph signing generate sells for their trademark and they would lose revenue.

This matter was bout players going out on their own and profiting on their na,e. it was not facilitated nor endorsed by any Osu Official or representative and from the wording it most likely appeared to Tressel to be nothing worse than a secondary violation.

anything more than 5 scholarships would be excessive and without justification.

Just showing that even when a major program recieves a major blow it can come back relatively quickly.

And you are obviously in denial about Tressell lying. So he didnt sign the compliance letter stating he had no knowledge of any violations months after receiving the email? oh wait, he was worried about the federal investigation.

Some of you homers just dont get it on Tressell. The major issue isnt the violation the players committed, its the fact he knew for 9 months and never went to the NCAA or the university officials. The only reason he ended up confessing was because he got caught. He should have been fired a month before he was actually fired and that in my guess costs the university scholarships for sticking by Tressell to long.

Any argument about memorabilia or pay the players or any crap like that is just completely arguing off the subject. The major violation is the fact the head coach hid the fact he knew players were ineligible and he let them play. How they became ineligible is not important.

Bottom line Tressel fucked up big time and hopefully it doesnt cost the university much more than a few scholarships. I am guessing it will be more than 5. Especially since the coach is no longer around to punish.