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Odell Beckham Jr.,: Seatbelts Ruin Lives

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Will the Browns look better or worse after this?

  • Browns got back to being a top 10 offense

    Votes: 23 54.8%
  • Browns will recover a but but it's too little to late to make the playoffs

    Votes: 6 14.3%
  • Odell wasn't the problem but he wasn't the solution either

    Votes: 11 26.2%
  • The offense goes from bad to badderer, but the team stays the course

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • Stefanski has to fall on his own sword

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • Baker gets traded in the off season

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    42
Some people are still having a really hard time with the transition of the Browns from cellar dweller to contender.

It's on both ends of the spectrum too...the overly critical and the overly defensive.

Just hope those folks are taking some time to enjoy the ride.
I thoroughly enjoyed Sunday’s game - was in SoFi Stadium. Hell of a game, sucks that we lost but it was exceptionally exciting with big plays back and forth. Definitely got my money’s worth.

Team played hard but ran out of gas. Too many injuries, bad calls etc. I know some want to find somebody to hang for the loss but I didn’t feel that way. Team owed me nothing - they left it all out on the field.

Never realized we had so many proctologists here. Also weird to see dozens of posts bashing an offense that scored 42 points with three top OT out by the fourth quarter. Of course, there’s always a group that will accept no excuses (I.e. “don’t care if Myles has Covid and can’t breathe properly, he’s paid to sack quarterbacks!“) but theres no sense paying too much attention to unreasonable people.
 
The Browns section has gone completely off the rails the past two weeks my god.
I have been beating the Beckham is mediocre drum since last year

Perfectly valid to think I’m dumb, but I’m not reactionary on Odell. He just doesn’t have it
 
I don't know how much more time is needed to figure out that the Baker-Beckham connection simply does not work.. For all intensive purposes, it should work but it just doesn't... You can pull out stats or pull out film to say why it should work or to identify missed opportunities but point blank, the connection is just not there...

I don't think any more time is needed, but more time is available. OBJ is bought & paid & untradable for at least a dozen more games. So we'll get to see them on the feild for a while longer. Who knows?They could make it work. I'm not holding my breath, but it could happen.
 
I have been beating the Beckham is mediocre drum since last year

Perfectly valid to think I’m dumb, but I’m not reactionary on Odell. He just doesn’t have it
I mean how though? He's definitely not the same player as he was with NY or first year in CLE, but he's getting open this year and Baker just isn't looking in his direction. Any other contender, he probably puts up average numbers as opposed to whatever this is.
 
This whole Browns discussion is getting old. Fuck it, just trade Odell. Trade Baker. Hell, might as well just cash it all in and start a rebuild. I think that's what about a third of the fans here want.

The Browns section has gone completely off the rails the past two weeks my god.

Think posts like this first one shows what drives it off the rails. Posts that are more about protecting a narrative rather than forming opinions based off stats or literally doing any type of work to backup an argument.

This place seems to have a Baker insecurity problem. Any thought of Baker not measuring up or being at least partially at fault for why OBJ looks so pedestrian gets attacked with pure venom.

If you are upset with a direction of a discussion then do the work to change the narrative. For all the shit the Baker thread is getting right now, there's some really excellent statistical breakdowns and argument over what the data means.
 
Brett Kollman did a pretty great breakdown on OBJ/Baker two months ago


At a couple different points in the video, Brett talks about Baker not targeting OBJ enough and essentially leaving yards on the table because he doesn't trust himself to make the play. We are seeing the same type of issue this year and the hope was this was gonna sort itself out with time and improved chemistry but it hasn't been the case thus far.

The thing is OBJ is ultimately replaceable or at least on his way out. These type of routes are apart of the offense and Baker needs to better anticipate guys getting open because it's not going to matter if it's OBJ or some new rookie receiver. Who will people blame then? The OBJ replacement? It's on Baker to do better.
 
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but he's getting open this year
Many posters says this, but I haven’t seen any evidence of it. Whenever it is thrown his way he’s usually pretty well covered. I don’t think he can get separation well, but I’m extremely willing to be proven wrong on this since I’m using my eye test and I know there’s better data out there
 
Many posters says this, but I haven’t seen any evidence of it. Whenever it is thrown his way he’s usually pretty well covered. I don’t think he can get separation well, but I’m extremely willing to be proven wrong on this since I’m using my eye test and I know there’s better data out there
Not a huge fan of this guy's commentary so mute him if you like. The raw tape shows him getting good releases on his routes and enough separation to make plays if Baker makes the proper read and an accurate throw.

Baker just doesn't seem to have the patience for slow developing routes and other times the offense just doesn't feature OBJ as the first option. It's on Baker to adjust because we all know he's capable of accurately hitting guys down the field on time.



 
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Think posts like this first one shows what drives it off the rails. Posts that are more about protecting a narrative rather than forming opinions based off stats or literally doing any type of work to backup an argument.

This place seems to have a Baker insecurity problem. Any thought of Baker not measuring up or being at least partially at fault for why OBJ looks so pedestrian gets attacked with pure venom.

If you are upset with a direction of a discussion then do the work to change the narrative. For all the shit the Baker thread is getting right now, there's some really excellent statistical breakdowns and argument over what the data means.
There are literally dozens of PAGES of why Baker isn't the long term solution/why can't he work with OBJ, since Sunday. That's hundreds of posts about a topic in 5 days. There isn't a single point of discussion that hasn't been brought up numerous times. All for a conclusion that has absolutely and already been made. OBJ isn't going to be on this team next year and there is a extremely high chance Baker for all his weaknesses is going to end up the franchise QB long term. The only chance he isn't is unless something strange happens like Wilson becomes available.
 
There are literally dozens of PAGES of why Baker isn't the long term solution/why can't he work with OBJ, since Sunday. That's hundreds of posts about a topic in 5 days. There isn't a single point of discussion that hasn't been brought up numerous times. All for a conclusion that has absolutely and already been made. OBJ isn't going to be on this team next year and there is a extremely high chance Baker for all his weaknesses is going to end up the franchise QB long term. The only chance he isn't is unless something strange happens like Wilson becomes available.
I can understand getting fatigued by the sheer amount of posts. Since the Chargers game, any criticism ignites a flame war that makes the thread borderline unreadable.

Even if the conclusion is foregone, there's something to learn from posts that breakdown his limitations and statistics. Baker Mayfield is an interesting case study.
 
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There are literally dozens of PAGES of why Baker isn't the long term solution/why can't he work with OBJ, since Sunday. That's hundreds of posts about a topic in 5 days. There isn't a single point of discussion that hasn't been brought up numerous times. All for a conclusion that has absolutely and already been made. OBJ isn't going to be on this team next year and there is a extremely high chance Baker for all his weaknesses is going to end up the franchise QB long term. The only chance he isn't is unless something strange happens like Wilson becomes available.

So, would you rather have a conversation about what is most likely to happen? Is that what you are getting at? You believe Baker will be here long term, so we should simply rally around him and accept it? Or what are you getting at? Should the Baker thread just be a support thread for Baker? And there is a separate thread debating his development and place in the league?

That thread has turned in to a lot of interesting stats being posted.....and then people who support Baker being unwilling to engage in a debate about any of it. I personally find Baker to be a pretty fascinating guy. A QB that has such extreme peaks and valleys. I also find it fascinating that there are so many people that don't find fault in his play or largely underplay what that fault may be. That thread is cult like with a lot of the people who are just not accepting of what the data says about Baker, up until this point.

The cycle is........

Here are some career stats that aren't great on 3rd down
Yeah, but what about his 3rd downs under Stefanski, the other years are less important
He's worse under Stefanski
Yeah, but he had the 3rd best passer rating over an 8-10 game stretch last year

I wouldn't really classify this as a discussion but if people don't want a deep dive on Baker, in his thread......can someone create another one then? Because I think there are a lot of interesting stats, points, breakdowns, etc. being brought up in that thread specifically. And I think for the Browns, wether you like it or not, it will be the prevailing discussion until it resolves in one direction.

I think it is very much the case in this thread as well.........where OBJ is such a polarizing player.....and a player that doesn't have the ball in his hands, i.e. he can't throw it to himself, involves a lot more gray area you need to navigate. That is more so my stance with Odell. He's a distressed asset at this point........but he has some promising data starting to bubble. So he's a candidate to actually suddenly break out if things click. Will they? Maybe not.......but he's a sunk cost at this point that could materialize in to a positive. I always hang on to those players until the end, just to try to squeeze some value out of them on the field. Then move on after his contract if nothing changes.
 
So, would you rather have a conversation about what is most likely to happen? Is that what you are getting at? You believe Baker will be here long term, so we should simply rally around him and accept it? Or what are you getting at? Should the Baker thread just be a support thread for Baker? And there is a separate thread debating his development and place in the league?

That thread has turned in to a lot of interesting stats being posted.....and then people who support Baker being unwilling to engage in a debate about any of it. I personally find Baker to be a pretty fascinating guy. A QB that has such extreme peaks and valleys. I also find it fascinating that there are so many people that don't find fault in his play or largely underplay what that fault may be. That thread is cult like with a lot of the people who are just not accepting of what the data says about Baker, up until this point.

The cycle is........

Here are some career stats that aren't great on 3rd down
Yeah, but what about his 3rd downs under Stefanski, the other years are less important
He's worse under Stefanski
Yeah, but he had the 3rd best passer rating over an 8-10 game stretch last year

I wouldn't really classify this as a discussion but if people don't want a deep dive on Baker, in his thread......can someone create another one then? Because I think there are a lot of interesting stats, points, breakdowns, etc. being brought up in that thread specifically. And I think for the Browns, wether you like it or not, it will be the prevailing discussion until it resolves in one direction.
So I posted this somewhere else, and this will be my absolutely last post about any of this shit.

Over the last 20 or so years the top 3-5 QBs one year are typically in the top 3-5 the next year. However 5-15 or so is constantly changing from year to year. Some years a guy is at 15, some years a guy is at 6, and .some years a guy is at 10. Baker is clearly in that 5-15 group right now. Last year he was top 10, right now he is 15. There is nothing wrong with that group, they can occasionally win games by themselves, and occasionally lose games by themselves. It would be great if Baker could step up and be in that top 5 group, but as someone htat watched Baker throughout college I recognize that isnt a realistic goal, and no one should expect him to be that year in and year out. Consistently in the top 10 should be the goal. Is that what fans want to hear, of course not. But there are very few guys in the world that can step up and be a starting NFL QB for an extended period of time. Baker is absolutely one of them the biggest question is where he falls from year to year. Is he going to be 5 or 6 or is he going to be 14 or 15
 
I also find it fascinating that there are so many people that don't find fault in his play or largely underplay what that fault may be. That thread is cult like with a lot of the people who are just not accepting of what the data says about Baker, up until this point.
I'd argue that the interpretation and exaggeration to specific and concentrated parts of the data, as well as the overreaction to small sample sizes (2021) is the issue.

I tried to bring that particular discussion to a fair conclusion because the arguments became circular and pointless, and when smacked with basic logic we had SOME PEOPLE moving goalposts faster than kids move pokemon cards.

Now if you still got some juice and wanna slug it out about Baker then fine, but this really isn't the thread to do that in.
 

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