Pete Rose dead at 83

I have always felt that the sudden, stunning death of Giamatti permanently locked Rose out, and that he would have been "forgiven" after a year or three. After Bart died, no subsequent commissioner could really champion his reinstatement without appearing to dishonor their predecessor.

He wasn't Shoeless Joe; he hadn't taken money to throw a game, much less a championship series.

An unsavory character? Absolutely. A shitty player-manager? Sure. Deserving of censure? Totally.

An all-time great? Without a doubt.
 
Benway said:
I have always felt that the sudden, stunning death of Giamatti permanently locked Rose out, and that he would have been "forgiven" after a year or three. After Bart died, no subsequent commissioner could really champion his reinstatement without appearing to dishonor their predecessor.

He wasn't Shoeless Joe; he hadn't taken money to throw a game, much less a championship series.

An unsavory character? Absolutely. A shitty player-manager? Sure. Deserving of censure? Totally.

An all-time great? Without a doubt.
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He adjusted his bullpen based on whether he had a bet down on the Reds or not. MLB rightfully banned him.

All of the sports leagues imho are making a terrible mistake getting into bed with the gambling industry. Sooner or later games or spot bets will be fixed and it will come out. But there’s lots of money involved and the owners and players are perfectly willing to sell out their integrity for even more money because it’s never enough.
 
2 For The Brew said:
He adjusted his bullpen based on whether he had a bet down on the Reds or not. MLB rightfully banned him.

All of the sports leagues imho are making a terrible mistake getting into bed with the gambling industry. Sooner or later games or spot bets will be fixed and it will come out. But there’s lots of money involved and the owners and players are perfectly willing to sell out their integrity for even more money because it’s never enough.
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It has been my understanding that he had never bet against the Reds.
I know nothing about his bullpen adjustments, have never heard this.

I'm basically operating on the presumption that he did what Ohtani's interpreter is alleged to have done.
 
Damn what a great baseball player. Played the game the right way. RIP. Pete.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
Ray Fosse would be to differ.
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It was a shame what happened to Ray Fosse, no doubt. But back then it was a legal play. Rose had no interest in ruining anyone's career. Sometimes shit happens.

Back then they played to win the game unlike today's All-Star games where it's played like a beer league softball game.
 
Benway said:
I have always felt that the sudden, stunning death of Giamatti permanently locked Rose out, and that he would have been "forgiven" after a year or three. After Bart died, no subsequent commissioner could really champion his reinstatement without appearing to dishonor their predecessor.

He wasn't Shoeless Joe; he hadn't taken money to throw a game, much less a championship series.

An unsavory character? Absolutely. A shitty player-manager? Sure. Deserving of censure? Totally.

An all-time great? Without a doubt.
Click to expand...

There's also the whole thing about having a sexual relationship with a girl he claimed was 16 but who said she was 14 when he was 32, married, and a father.

Excellent baseball player, shitty human.
 
Benway said:
It has been my understanding that he had never bet against the Reds.
I know nothing about his bullpen adjustments, have never heard this.

I'm basically operating on the presumption that he did what Ohtani's interpreter is alleged to have done.
Click to expand...

No, he never bet against the Reds, but he did not bet on the Reds every day. It depended on the starting pitcher. There was one starter he would NOT place a bet on. That affected his bullpen use.

I do agree with the Bart Giamatti point you made. His death embittered everyone around the commissioner’s office. For me I wouldn’t have allowed him back regardless because he DID bet on his own team and he DID make decisions as a manager based to some extent on his personal bets.

I hold anyone in a management position to a much higher standard than an individual contributor. In sports there are racists and bigots and prejudiced players out there but they are employable as long as they keep that shit out of the locker room. But a manager or GM - absolutely not. Same applies with gambling only more so because it affects the integrity of the sport.

I do put some blame on Bart though. Rose was offered a hearing but declined. Fay Vincent had worked in the SEC and decided to offer Rose a “consent decree”. So Rose admitted the Commish had a basis to ban him permanently BUT did not admit he bet on baseball (which is the only reason one can be permanently banned). It allowed him to save a little face and got him out of baseball. But when Bart was asked if he thought Rose bet, he said “yes” which was an awful mistake. He did not live up to the spirit of the agreement and Rose had every right to be pissed about it.

Just a tragic story all around.
 
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