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Here we ago again with the "its Trevor Bauer" crap.

Man that Trevor is really something - posting away in the middle of a game.

At least I suspect he is at a game right now. Maybe it got rained or something, so the narrative of "its Trevor Bauer under an alias", can continue.

Give me a F....ing break.
Lee is a jokester, don’t take it personally
 
Well, Karinchak apparently didn't read the chapter on throwing hitters middle speed pitches. Everything is either 96 or 82.

But I see what you jup means about hitters being trapped in the middle. Donaldson was clearly looking for a fastball on the first pitch and got one right down the pipe. But his swing was still late and he fouled out to the right side. The Twins hitters were out in front of Karinchak's curve and behind his fastball.
Yep

I don't try to convince anyone Wham, I just put up the information. Watch enough baseball, and develop an eye for what you are watching (pitching wise at least) and the game will convince you all by itself.
 
Here we ago again with the "its Trevor Bauer" crap.

Man that Trevor is really something - posting away in the middle of a game.

At least I suspect he is at a game right now. Maybe it got rained or something, so the narrative of "its Trevor Bauer under an alias", can continue.

Give me a F....ing break.

Its only a joke, we like humor here on RCF. The tribe section has be devoid of it allot, but that isn't like the other sections.

Do I really think you are Bauer? Of course not, but its a semi funny joke, and not sure how it can be taken as an insult even a bit,.

True story from this sites first year. We had one pro athlete confirmed on here, Scott Brooks...yes that Scott Brooks, former Cavs great (played one season for us and averaged 1.8 pts a game) and current Wizards head coach. Anyways, his screen name was " Scott Brooks Jam", and he got run of the board because someone called him out for using the word Jam in his name. No one believed it was him, plus we all thought it was hilarious because no way has Scott Brooks every dunked a basketball in his life so why use the word Jam? lol.

Anyways, enjoy the board, it is well moderated, good place, and understand we give a bit of room for humor....sports is entertainment, some we have all missed, but lets have fun with it.
 
Its only a joke, we like humor here on RCF. The tribe section has be devoid of it allot, but that isn't like the other sections.

Do I really think you are Bauer? Of course not, but its a semi funny joke, and not sure how it can be taken as an insult even a bit,.

True story from this sites first year. We had one pro athlete confirmed on here, Scott Brooks...yes that Scott Brooks, former Cavs great (played one season for us and averaged 1.8 pts a game) and current Wizards head coach. Anyways, his screen name was " Scott Brooks Jam", and he got run of the board because someone called him out for using the word Jam in his name. No one believed it was him, plus we all thought it was hilarious because no way has Scott Brooks every dunked a basketball in his life so why use the word Jam? lol.

Anyways, enjoy the board, it is well moderated, good place, and understand we give a bit of room for humor....sports is entertainment, some we have all missed, but lets have fun with it.
Well Lee, it was really a comment about the continuation of a very old narrative that ran for like 2 years. And at some point it is just old and stale.

Not taken personally and the part about TB posting during a game was some humor aimed at the absurdity of it. But make no mistake, the "give it a F...ing break" was directed at IBI migrants that seem to still want to continue down that path.

No harm no foul as far as I am concerned on your part
 
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Jup, I truly meant no disrespect. I merely was trying to tell people on this board why, in my opinion, some people from the IBI boards have a thin skin regarding you. Post whatever you like, I’m not telling you what you can and can’t do. I credited you for being very knowledgeable about pitching.
 
I still recall how Jup broke the 3-way Bauer trade on the other now defunct Indians fan forum. It quickly put to rest any doubts about his connections inside the game,
 
So I saw another at bat in Civale’s second start that I just loved. To Buxton bottom of the 5th.

The pitches in the at bat look like the left side, the tunnels (tunnel basics earlier in this thread) they come out of on the right. Red – cutter, Black FB, Green -SL Notice how different the arrangement of the tunnel positions are versus the final location in the zone.

3YsGZ41.png


Hitters respond to what they see and correlate it to the result at the plate, so looking at the tunnels involved gives an idea what the hitter may be responding to. Of course, the tunnel stuff is going to be much smaller in total size because the hitter is making a determination to swing at approximately 35 feet. But for illustrative purposes it makes no difference because the relative spacing of everything remains the same. It all just shrinks.

Working from 1st pitch

9zD3Fon.png


Upper right in red is the “tunnel strike zone” that the pitch itself informed the hitter of. The actual K zone is down and to the left in yellow. So Buxton sees a cutter and takes it for a called strike but develops an idea of where the ball needs to be coming out of “tunnel-wise” to be a strike. He does that by correlating what he saw with where the pitch itself ended up in the strike zone. In particular this cutter told him a lot about the inside/middle of the zone. But how does that effect the next pitch

9llAsZ4.png


The Slider tunnel is right on the outside edge of the first “tunnel zone” formed by the cutter and Buxton has a real hard time not chasing it. But he holds up because it keeps breaking downward and ends up way below the zone, but once again, that pitch (the slider) informs the hitter of the “tunnel zone” that yields strikes/balls that he has been thrown. The slider “tunnel zone” is shown in green (in the diagram below) on the left-hand side.
 
SaEMim3.png


While the slider doesn’t do a lot to clarify the bottom of the zone (offset between 1st and 2nd pitch shown at right in green) it does solidify the edges of the zone inside and outside (purple ovals right hand side). So Buxton has a very firm handle on where the edges of the K zone are now from two very similar pitches. Next he gets another cutter.

FxkGGgi.png


So the cutter is once again on the outside of the zone Buxton has developed from the 2 prior pitches and well within the top to bottom range of the zone that the slider and cutter overlap have established. He swings and misses at a pitch that looks like it should be a strike but just barely isn’t. On the far right, the 2nd cutters “tunnel zone” (red once again) helps reinforce the edges (particularly outside) of the zone in Buxton’s mind and identifies right where the top of the zone is as the pitch ends up just out of the corner of the strike zone.

5msItVv.png


Above is the decisive pitch of the at bat. On the left we can see the tunnel that FB came out of. Buxton has had 3 almost identical pitches define and reinforce where the “window” for the Kzone is, and that FB is nowhere close. He “freezes” and is left standing like a statue staring down at the plate on a FB right down the middle.


Pitchers that are on the leading edge of using tunneling, use tunnels to define the edges of the strike zone, rather than the single tunnel approach that has all pitches emanate from one “tunnel”, which has been popularized by TV broadcasts and gifs like the Ninja puts up. Because a single tunnel approach never had much success against MLB hitters. Partially because getting any pitcher to throw all sorts of different pitches to the exact same spot consecutively is just unrealistic. Secondly, there are intrinsic differences between the way pitches leave the hand, and trying to have them all come out of a single tunnel, just highlights the difference for the hitter, making early identification that much easier, defeating the purposes of tunneling in the first place => DECEPTION
 
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SaEMim3.png


While the slider doesn’t do a lot to clarify the bottom of the zone (offset between 1st and 2nd pitch shown at right in green) it does solidify the edges of the zone inside and outside (purple ovals right hand side). So Buxton has a very firm handle on where the edges of the K zone are now from two very similar pitches. Next he gets another cutter.

FxkGGgi.png


So the cutter is once again on the outside of the zone Buxton has developed from the 2 prior pitches and well within the top to bottom range of the zone that the slider and cutter overlap have established. He swings and misses at a pitch that looks like it should be a strike but just barely isn’t. On the far right, the 2nd cutters “tunnel zone” (red once again) helps reinforce the edges (particularly outside) of the zone in Buxton’s mind and identifies right where the top of the zone is as the pitch ends up just out of the corner of the strike zone.

5msItVv.png


Above is the decisive pitch of the at bat. On the left we can see the tunnel that FB came out of. Buxton has had 3 almost identical pitches define and reinforce where the “window” for the Kzone is, and that FB is nowhere close. He “freezes” and is left standing like a statue staring down at the plate on a FB right down the middle.


Pitchers that are on the leading edge of using tunneling, use tunnels to define the edges of the strike zone, rather than the single tunnel approach that has all pitches emanate from one “tunnel”, which has been popularized by TV broadcasts and gifs like the Ninja puts up. Because a single tunnel approach never had much success against MLB hitters. Partially because getting any pitcher to throw all sorts of different pitches to the exact same spot consecutively is just unrealistic. Secondly, there are intrinsic differences between the way pitches leave the hand, and trying to have them all come out of a single tunnel, just highlights the difference for the hitter, making early identification that much easier, defeating the purposes of tunneling in the first place => DECEPTION
Really quite interesting and enlightening...thanks for the effort, as it really has enhanced my understanding of pitch craft.
 
Good friends, great rivals: The tale of Trev & Clev
Zack Meisel 2h ago 6
CINCINNATI — Mike Clevinger retreated to his locker one evening last week. When he scanned his phone, one text from a familiar instigator caught his attention.
Guess who you’re facing?
The skies had opened and the stars had aligned. Thanks to a rainout in Cleveland, Clevinger and former teammate Trevor Bauer were scheduled to square off this week, appointment viewing during the annual I-71 clash.
For years, Bauer was a lone wolf in Cleveland, a data-obsessed hurler who challenged and occasionally butted heads with authority. Then along came a scraggly haired skateboarder with colorful tattoos and an affinity for Jimi Hendrix.
They couldn’t be wired more differently. Clevinger once described Bauer as “the nerd” of the Indians’ rotation, while classifying himself as “the wild card.” But their thirst for knowledge and competition spurred them to forge a friendship.
They initially fit the roles of teacher and pupil. Bauer knew where to search for answers to questions about mechanics or pitch design, and Clevinger demonstrated an insatiable curiosity. Bauer turned Clevinger on to biomechanics, and on days neither stood atop the mound, they would lean against the dugout railing and chat about pitch sequencing.
Over a couple of years, they placed countless wagers. They talked trash until they were hoarse. They displayed an unrelenting desire to one-up the other, highlighted by their incessant debate about fastball velocity, strikeout totals, ERA and any other data point that might help one craft a case that he was superior to the other.
The owner of the speediest fastball was dubbed the “Velo Daddy,” which Bauer scribbled on a $100 bill he handed to Clevinger after his heater fell short on the radar gun. They instituted the “King of the Hill” crown, a maroon felt cap with a gold frame and blue and green jewels, awarded to the top pitcher of a series. They recorded the pilot episode of a “Trev & Clev” podcast that never saw the light of day. Bauer has interviewed Clevinger multiple times for his “Bauer Bytes” show.
What bonded them, though, was their ambition. Bauer has long prattled on about his plan to win a bookshelf full of Cy Young Awards. Clevinger has similar, slightly more attainable aspirations. And as they have constantly teased each other during their respective pursuits of stardom, they have aided each other along their journeys. Clevinger said Bauer was “instrumental” in his development from an inexperienced hurler who paced and puked before every outing as if they were each a decisive World Series start into one of the premier pitchers in the American League.
Their relationship also established a new standard among Tribe starters. Shane Bieber eventually became their little brother. “He’s still the little brother,” Clevinger stressed. Though they teased Bieber about his velocity upon his arrival in the majors, they did so knowing he possessed the ability to reach back and clock his fastball in the mid-90s. Clevinger has since mentored Zach Plesac in a similar fashion, as the two trained together during much of last winter.
By last season, Bauer and Clevinger knew their tenure as teammates was on borrowed time. As Cleveland’s team control of Bauer dwindled, the pitcher’s name swirled in trade rumors. The night Bauer was dealt to Cincinnati last July, he and Clevinger shared a heartfelt embrace at Bauer’s locker before Bauer bid the rest of his teammates farewell.
They met for lunch the next day before Bauer toured Progressive Field one last time, documenting the final chapter of his Cleveland career during the Indians’ game against the Astros. Clevinger created a spoof of a scene in “Furious 7,” set to the song “See You Again,” in which Bauer and Clevinger (with Bieber riding shotgun) drive their separate ways on the highway. He made sure his vehicle’s license plate read “Velo Daddy.”

From the moment the trade was executed, they knew they stood a chance to meet again on the diamond. The Indians and Reds, after all, battle for the Ohio Cup every season.
For a few hours last week, that dream duel seemed imminent. Clevinger joked that they would plead with their managers to abandon the designated hitter for one night so they would get to venture into the batter’s box against each other. Rather than disappear in the dugout or the video room between innings, Clevinger planned to “top-step” Bauer, to stand in plain sight and heckle his former rotation mate.
“I’m more excited to have an empty stadium, where you can hear everything I’m saying to him,” Clevinger said. “Now we can see who’s more mentally tough.”


A harmless tweet about their potential matchup late last week spawned a ruthless war of words between the two.
Bauer described their matchup as follows:
1) Apprentice vs. Master
2) Son vs. Father
3) Child vs. Goat
Clevinger then upped the ante, painting it as:
1) Sunshine vs. Kid who ruined the World Series with drone
2) Sunshine vs. Guy with a career 4.00 ERA
3) Sunshine vs. Guy who threw the ball over the center-field wall during meltdown
Bauer supplied the last word:
1) Guy who watched the World Series vs. Game 2 and 5 starter
2) My son, shine vs. Guy with Cy Young votes
3) Shane Bieber’s shadow vs. Guy who saved your career


Good friends. Great rivals.
“I was going to leave the toe tag on him,” Clevinger said. “I was already sitting there, already watching him come back for more because he knew he got body-bagged right there.”
Mother Nature had other ideas. A pair of Reds rainouts not only spoiled the Bauer-Clevinger matchup, but the rearranged schedule pushed Bauer out of the pitching plans altogether for the Cleveland series. Bauer’s petition to pitch on short rest fell on deaf ears.
“I’m happy for Clevinger,” Bauer said. “It’s got to be a good thing for him.”
And why’s that?
“Everyone likes to feel confident and have a good start to their season,” Bauer said, “and I really didn’t want to have to take that from him. So it’s probably better that we don’t match up.”
Clevinger will still face the Reds on Wednesday. Bauer will make his long-awaited return to Cleveland. And the mental warfare between the two will undoubtedly continue.
“Oh yeah,” Clevinger said. “It’s the whole kit and caboodle. It’s everything.”
 
That article tells you everything you need to know about how valuable Bauer's tenure was to Cleveland pitching.

From Bauer, to Clevinger, to Bieber then ends up to Plesac!
 
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The odd couple no doubt
 
Meisel:

Mike Clevinger kept tossing a mysterious 88 mph pitch Wednesday night. The MLB game feed initially classified them as sliders, but Clevinger’s slider averaged 80.7 mph last season.

So, after the game, I asked Clevinger if he had unveiled a new pitch. He wouldn’t be the first Tribe starter to implement a cutter into his repertoire this season. Shane Bieber’s new cutter is the talk of every Zoom call in town.

Clevinger, though, played coy.

“It seems like a misfired fastball is all,” he said, laughing. “I don’t know. Keeping that cat in the bag as long as possible.”

Whatever it was, he threw 17 of them. That’s a lot of so-called faulty fastballs.

“It kind of has a mind of its own, that pitch,” Clevinger said. “But it’s definitely a fun one to throw.”

Reds hitters offered at the pitch four times. They came up empty four times. Solid results for whatever foreign pitch it was.

I asked Clevinger if he perhaps followed Bieber’s lead. Of course, I didn’t mention Bieber by name, given the highly sensitive nature of this top-secret information.

“It’s low-key kind of a get-out-of-jail-free card when you have some good secondary stuff,” Clevinger said. “So, watching every single starter have one besides me was kind of tell-tale that maybe I needed to work on something between starts. That was the first go-around, so it should get better from here.”

Clevinger usually relies on his curveball and change-up against lefties and his slider against righties. Now, he may have another option. If only we knew what it was …

“It was a cutter,” catcher Sandy León said.

Oh. Well, that settles it.

“It was really good,” León added.


Before Clevinger and León walked out to the bullpen for a pregame warmup session, Clevinger told his catcher he had a new pitch to test, one he had toyed with during summer camp and subsequent bullpen sessions. Both León and pitching coach Carl Willis liked what they saw in the ‘pen, so they included it in their game plan.

“It actually helped his slider,” Willis said. “Once they saw the cutter a few times, they really got in between on the slider.”
 
Meisel:

Mike Clevinger kept tossing a mysterious 88 mph pitch Wednesday night. The MLB game feed initially classified them as sliders, but Clevinger’s slider averaged 80.7 mph last season.

So, after the game, I asked Clevinger if he had unveiled a new pitch. He wouldn’t be the first Tribe starter to implement a cutter into his repertoire this season. Shane Bieber’s new cutter is the talk of every Zoom call in town.

Clevinger, though, played coy.

“It seems like a misfired fastball is all,” he said, laughing. “I don’t know. Keeping that cat in the bag as long as possible.”

Whatever it was, he threw 17 of them. That’s a lot of so-called faulty fastballs.

“It kind of has a mind of its own, that pitch,” Clevinger said. “But it’s definitely a fun one to throw.”

Reds hitters offered at the pitch four times. They came up empty four times. Solid results for whatever foreign pitch it was.

I asked Clevinger if he perhaps followed Bieber’s lead. Of course, I didn’t mention Bieber by name, given the highly sensitive nature of this top-secret information.

“It’s low-key kind of a get-out-of-jail-free card when you have some good secondary stuff,” Clevinger said. “So, watching every single starter have one besides me was kind of tell-tale that maybe I needed to work on something between starts. That was the first go-around, so it should get better from here.”

Clevinger usually relies on his curveball and change-up against lefties and his slider against righties. Now, he may have another option. If only we knew what it was …

“It was a cutter,” catcher Sandy León said.

Oh. Well, that settles it.

“It was really good,” León added.


Before Clevinger and León walked out to the bullpen for a pregame warmup session, Clevinger told his catcher he had a new pitch to test, one he had toyed with during summer camp and subsequent bullpen sessions. Both León and pitching coach Carl Willis liked what they saw in the ‘pen, so they included it in their game plan.

“It actually helped his slider,” Willis said. “Once they saw the cutter a few times, they really got in between on the slider.”
It is what he needed to do several years back. And I am happy for him and all Cleveland fans should be also.

In the modern era, a cutter is the workhorse pitch. Starters that don't throw them just stack the odds against themselves. That is why you see Biebs with one now also. It has to do with the speed, the movement profile, the inability for hitters to distinguish them and the distribution of pitches thrown in a game that is optimum. Which incidentally is about 40% FBs which the Indians have finally come to embrace after the :bowdown: "Mickey" years.

Maybe one of these days I will throw something up in this thread.
 
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