Poll Open -- All-Stiff Team Shooting Guard

[The Human Q-Tip]

ETA: Vote for up to three of these stiffs.

Obviously, there is a disconnect between the name of this position, and the reality that most of the guys in this category couldn't actually shoot. I'll post the list of names for preliminary discussion, and then activate poll itself a bit later. If you nominated someone in the other thread, please feel free to cut and paste it into this thread so voters will have it all in one place. The ten nominees are:

Chad "Flippin' Burgers" Kinch

Chad Kinch Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Chad Kinch. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

Dajuan "I have the body ailments of a 75-year old" Wagner

Dajuan Wagner Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Dajuan Wagner. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

Nik "Stink Ass" Stauskas

Nik Stauskas Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Nik Stauskas. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

"Up" Chuckie Williams

Chuckie Williams Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Chuckie Williams. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

Christian "Sky High" Eyenga

Christian Eyenga Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Christian Eyenga. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

Harold "At least I can dunk" Miner

Harold Miner Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Harold Miner. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

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Gerald "Quit laughing at me" Madkins

Gerald Madkins Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Gerald Madkins. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

Reggie "The Bricklayer" Williams

Reggie Williams Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Reggie Williams. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

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John "Horror Show" Morton

John Morton Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of John Morton. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

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Dion "Ayeee!" Waiters

Dion Waiters Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Dion Waiters. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[Derek]

Larry Hughes

He spawned the creation of HeyLarryHughesPleaseStopTakingSoManyBadShots.com

Played 146 games in Cleveland at 34.8 mpg
He shot 41.2% on 2's and 34.2% on 3's
44.1% of his shot attempts were from the midrange

In the playoffs, he was worse
He shot 33.8% on 2's and 33.3% on 3's
45.8% of his playoff shot attempts were from the midrange

This was all after signing a 5 year $70 million contract

 

[cabs]

Anthony Parker, was like a 35 year old stiff on a rebuilding team

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Larry Hughes

He spawned the creation of HeyLarryHughesPleaseStopTakingSoManyBadShots.com

Played 146 games in Cleveland at 34.8 mpg
He shot 41.2% on 2's and 34.2% on 3's
44.1% of his shot attempts were from the midrange

In the playoffs, he was worse
He shot 33.8% on 2's and 33.3% on 3's
45.8% of his playoff shot attempts were from the midrange

This was all after signing a 5 year $70 million contract

Okay, but I can only do 10. Who should I remove from the list of 10 above?

 

[Deezus]

How could we forget the one and only Dejuan "I have the body ailments of a 75 year old" Wagner?! I wasn't sure if he'd be listed as a PG or a SG, but basketball reference has him listed as a SG: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wagneda02.html

This guy, as the 6th overall pick, shot a whopping 36% from the field for his career, missed an entire season as a 22 year old with Colitis, and was out of the league after playing only 103 total games (no more than 47 for any season)!

 

[catfish]

I will give you a stiff-part of the worst CAVS trade ever-Wayne Embry Gordon Gund what were you thinking-Reggie Williams.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

How could we forget the one and only Dejuan "I have the body ailments of a 75 year old" Wagner?! I wasn't sure if he'd be listed as a PG or a SG, but basketball reference has him listed as a SG: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wagneda02.html

This guy, as the 6th overall pick, shot a whopping 36% from the field for his career, missed an entire season as a 22 year old with Colitis, and was out of the league after playing only 103 total games (no more than 47 for any season)!

Got too many guys.

But okay, I'll find a place for Wagner. I left him off only because it was a health/injury issue with him more than a lack of talent.

I will give you a stiff-part of the worst CAVS trade ever-Wayne Embry Gordon Gund what were you thinking-Reggie Williams.

Williams wasn't that bad a player other than that terrible season he had with the Cavs, which admittedly was very stiff-like.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Dishonorable mention - Nik Stauskas. He didn’t play enough for us to qualify for the poll but his savage 28.3% shooting from 2 point land and the fact that you can‘t spell his name without “stink ass” deserves to be noted. Dude was traded about a dozen times right before the trade deadline - then we signed him to get sloppy thirteenths. Cavaliers didn’t keep him around despite the fact his college coach was hired into the head coaching job and despite the fact that the Cavaliers love Lithuanians and love Canadians even more (A Bennett, A Wiggins, TT). The fact that the Sixers desperately needed shooting and dumped this guy should have been a clue that he’s terrible - but no, we had to sign him - I guess Deron and Derrick weren’t around to fill our roster with crap so we needed Nik.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

How could we forget the one and only Dejuan "I have the body ailments of a 75 year old" Wagner?! I wasn't sure if he'd be listed as a PG or a SG, but basketball reference has him listed as a SG: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wagneda02.html

This guy, as the 6th overall pick, shot a whopping 36% from the field for his career, missed an entire season as a 22 year old with Colitis, and was out of the league after playing only 103 total games (no more than 47 for any season)!

Okay, I made a command decision and replaced Trajan Langdon with Dajuan Wagner. Langdon was with the Cavs three years and never had a negative VORP -- Wagner was negative all three years. Wagner also had negative winshares two out of those three years, and you have to be really bad to get negative winshares.

As for the other late nominees, Stauskas was erroneously included in the SF poll so I'm going to give him his shot here, replacing Damon Jones, who also never had a negative VORP year. Reggie Williams was a negative VORP and negative winshares guy, and that's sufficiently rare that he needs to be in this too. The only remaining guy in the poll who did not have a negative VORP was Bryant Stith, who was a zero. But at this level of suckitude, being a zero is better than being one of these guys.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

The one risk in constructing an All-Stiff team is that perhaps the stiffs will find a way to bond together, and there is a slight chance that the whole will be greater than the sum of its parts. So, any All-Stiff team needs that one guy who, while he might not be as devoid of talent individually as his All-Stiff teammates, will be so destructive of team unity and morale that the whole is guaranteed to be even worse than the sum of its horrific parts. Fortunately, there is a former Cav who fits that description perfectly.

He's the guy whose boneheaded on court play made LBJ do this:



He's this guy too:

Dion "Ayeee!" Waiters


In the 2012 NBA draft, The Cavs' "Brain Trust" of Chris Grant and All-Stiff Coach nominee Byron Scott combined their basketball minds to draft -- at No. 6 overall -- a guy who wasn't even reliable enough to start for his own college team. Dion was a "battler". The problem was, he was usually battling his teammates, or the refs for refusing to give him his "And 1's!", or the rim that refused to open up for his all-to-frequent failures to finish. All accompanied by his patented body language.

Dion could sometimes shoot, and could pass...but his boneheaded play and attitude almost always made him a net negative for his team -- negative BPM, negative VORP. Not just during his time in Cleveland, but for his entire career. A career that seems to have ended with an appropriately bizarre freakout at 30,000 feet from eating too many edibles. You couldn't have predicted it...but nobody was surprised.

If you want a guy who absolutely, positively, will make sure your team doesn't gel, Dion is your guy.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Chuckie Williams had a total of 65 minutes with the Cavaliers and logged no more than 7 in any one game before Fitch cut him in the first round pick's rookie year.

The Cavaliers really hit that draft class hard -- of 34 picks in the first two rounds the Cavaliers had 10 that either played for us or were head coach - #1 John Lucas, #3 Richard Washington, #11 Bob Wilkerson, #12 Terry Furlow, #15 Chuckie Williams, #18 (#1 second Round) Willie Smith, #21 Earl Tatum, #22 Johnny Davis, #25 Lonnie Shelton, #32 Mo Howard.

There's a whole team of stiffs and a stiff coach for the Cavaliers in one draft class. We also drafted Gary Cole (later Abdul Jeelani) but he never played for us. That's quite an accomplishment with only 34 picks (now we have 60).

I wonder if there is any other draft class that was so bountiful for the Cavaliers in terms of stiffs. (I'm NOT counting Lonnie or Johnny as stiffs -- they could play, and Lonnie was an authentic badass).

 

[Deezus]

Okay, I made a command decision and replaced Trajan Langdon with Dajuan Wagner. Langdon was with the Cavs three years and never had a negative VORP -- Wagner was negative all three years. Wagner also had negative winshares two out of those three years, and you have to be really bad to get negative winshares.

As for the other late nominees, Stauskas was erroneously included in the SF poll so I'm going to give him his shot here, replacing Damon Jones, who also never had a negative VORP year. Reggie Williams was a negative VORP and negative winshares guy, and that's sufficiently rare that he needs to be in this too. The only remaining guy in the poll who did not have a negative VORP was Bryant Stith, who was a zero. But at this level of suckitude, being a zero is better than being one of these guys.

Haha... I knew none of that, but I am not surprised. You know where my vote is going!

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Haha... I knew none of that, but I am not surprised. You know where my vote is going!

You can vote for up to three. We should probably let everyone vote up to ten because those guys all suck.

 

[Derek]

I would vote for Larry Hughes above all these bums, but since he's not an option, I'll throw my vote to Dion Waiters

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I would vote for Larry Hughes above all these bums, but since he's not an option, I'll throw my vote to Dion Waiters

Sorry -- I was limited by the number of permitted poll responses. So when I had too many, I tried to be somewhat objective and go with stats/advanced stats. I realize that's imperfect, but there really wasn't any other objective way to choose.

As a shooting guard in Cleveland, Hughes averaged about 15 ppg, 4 rpg, and 36 apg. He was plus VORP both years, and about a -1.0 BPM. He wasn't the great defender he was advertised to be, but he was still a plus defender. He was a terrible acquisition in that he wasn't as good as advertised, and meant we couldn't get anyone else because of the money/cap space we invested in him. But in terms of his own play, I couldn't say that he was objectively as bad or worse than the guys listed in the poll. I could certainly see him objectively in the top ten in terms of "biggest disappointments", but not in terms of worst players.