The Chubb-Hub Yardage Delivery Service

[Triplethreat]

Credit goes to former Browns QB Ken Dorsey, who coached up Cam Newton before taking the job in Buffalo. He is a shitty backup quarterback but it turns out he can coach his ass off.

He's looked damn impressive. For how powerful of an arm he has he's learned how to drop it in the bucket with touch..

Something I think Baker could do better sometimes.

 

[chrisrich91]

This he said she said shit sucks.

I'm old enough to remember when everyone said Josh Allen sucks and that he'd be an atrocity if we drafted him high and guess what. Now he's the second best QB in that entire class.

Josh Allen would be an atrocity if the Browns drafted him high.

Circumstances matter.

 

[Triplethreat]

Josh Allen would be an atrocity if the Browns drafted him high.

Circumstances matter.

You can't confirm that, we have no idea what he would have looked like if he played here.

Thus, we can only look at him based off actual real life performance where he is now.

 

[Randolphkeys]

You can't confirm that, we have no idea what he would have looked like if he played here.

Thus, we can only look at him based off actual real life performance where he is now.

About a nine on the arrogance scale there. I think it is reasonable for someone to list the exact same negative influences you yourself have listed. If Freddy Kitchens and his nightmare coaching performance held back Baker Mayfield, it would also have negatively influenced Josh Allen. BTW - Seam McDermott has proven without a doubt that we should have selected him over Hue.

 

[chrisrich91]

You can't confirm that, we have no idea what he would have looked like if he played here.

Thus, we can only look at him based off actual real life performance where he is now.

We know a much more polished prospect who jumped out the gate at a record breaking pace, Baker Mayfield, experienced regression due to the toxicity, volatility, and incompetence of this situation.

It’s not much of a stretch to project that a less polished prospect who still took a bit of time to develop in Buffalo, a place with much stronger culture and far less organizational turmoil, would have failed here.

 

[Triplethreat]

About a nine on the arrogance scale there. I think it is reasonable for someone to list the exact same negative influences you yourself have listed. If Freddy Kitchens and his nightmare coaching performance held back Baker Mayfield, it would also have negatively influenced Josh Allen. BTW - Seam McDermott has proven without a doubt that we should have selected him over Hue.

I'm not going to go out and start arguing about hypotheticals and alternate universes. In the alternate universe where the Browns draft Josh Allen who knows if they hire Freddy.

It doesn't even make sense to argue it.

Sure, if THE EXACT SAME circumstances happened with a different QB anyone would be fucked.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I'd say the main difference is that Barkley loses yards a lot more than Chubb from dancing around trying to break off a big run. He's dangerous and capable of breaking off that big run on any given play, but so is Chubb, and he rarely loses yards.

Barkley is definitely better in the passing game, but Chubb is 100% the better runner. He rarely loses yards and definitely has better vision. Barkley, to me, is a guy best utilized in space. Chubb can be used in space (I'd argue we haven't used him enough in that capacity given his elite burst) and as a grinder between the tackles.

Personally, I think Barkley is a far better fantasy football player than real one.

I think you'd have a very different view if Saquon was in a functional offense.

The dude is an absolutely special talent, and it's easy to say "he lacks vision!" when there aren't any lanes to run through.

For my money, he's still, by a wide margin, the best running back in the league when healthy.

 

[Jordan]

I think you'd have a very different view if Saquon was in a functional offense.

The dude is an absolutely special talent, and it's easy to say "he lacks vision!" when there aren't any lanes to run through.

For my money, he's still, by a wide margin, the best running back in the league when healthy.

In a time where the runningback is considered "less valuable" in modern offenses, we have a league of phenomenal runningbacks. Saquon, Chubb, McCaffery, Henry, and Zeke are all great. There is an awesome second-tier that has guys like Hunt, Chris Carson, etc. And then there are a few really good, young RBs - Josh Jacobs, CEH, etc.

Call me crazy, but maybe smart teams are just figuring out better ways to meld the run game and pass game, rather than completely moving away from the run.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

The dude is an absolutely special talent, and it's easy to say "he lacks vision!" when there aren't any lanes to run through.

But that was part of the criticism of him at Penn State, too. The issue is that he too often looks to break the big one, and so bypasses cuts or just plowing ahead to make 4 yards, and so gets stacked up for no gain or a loss instead. Here's an article about that exact issue with him, from 2018:

Giants want more 'dirty' runs from Saquon Barkley

Saquon Barkley's big-play proficiency has made him one of the NFL's standout rookies, but New York Giants coach Pat Shurmur wants his running back to get his feet more dirty moving forward.

www.nfl.com

To me, misjudging when it makes sense to bounce it outside is part of "vision".

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

In a time where the runningback is considered "less valuable" in modern offenses, we have a league of phenomenal runningbacks. Saquon, Chubb, McCaffery, Henry, and Zeke are all great. There is an awesome second-tier that has guys like Hunt, Chris Carson, etc. And then there are a few really good, young RBs - Josh Jacobs, CEH, etc.

Call me crazy, but maybe smart teams are just figuring out better ways to meld the run game and pass game, rather than completely moving away from the run.

I think you missed Mixon and Kamara in there.

Second tier, Cook and a bunch of others.

I agree.

But that was part of the criticism of him at Penn State, too. The issue is that he too often looks to break the big one, and so bypasses cuts or just plowing ahead to make 4 yards, and so gets stacked up for no gain or a loss instead. To me, misjudging when it makes sense to bounce it outside is part of "vision".

Of course. But, I don't see a back who does that. When I see this take, I hear someone who doesn't watch the game, and repeats a bad take.

You want backs that are all athlete without the vision? That's Tevin Coleman's career. That's Trent Richardson. That's Miles Sanders last year.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

In a time where the runningback is considered "less valuable" in modern offenses, we have a league of phenomenal runningbacks. Saquon, Chubb, McCaffery, Henry, and Zeke are all great. There is an awesome second-tier that has guys like Hunt, Chris Carson, etc. And then there are a few really good, young RBs - Josh Jacobs, CEH, etc.

Call me crazy, but maybe smart teams are just figuring out better ways to meld the run game and pass game, rather than completely moving away from the run.

I agree. I know Analytics say that teams should basically never run the football, but I think in the NFL, I think you pass to set up the run. The Browns did that magnificently this last game, where Baker put everyone on skates with those two PA passes and then the defense had no idea what to key on.

And when you give guys like Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt a small opening, it turns into gaping holes.

 

[Jordan]

I agree. I know Analytics say that teams should basically never run the football, but I think in the NFL, I think you pass to set up the run. The Browns did that magnificently this last game, where Baker put everyone on skates with those two PA passes and then the defense had no idea what to key on.

And when you give guys like Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt a small opening, it turns into gaping holes.

The correlation between ZBS runs and play-action success is very high. I think a lot of public analytics treat all runs as the same, and as a consequence, gap scheme runs are overweighted.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

The correlation between ZBS runs and play-action success is very high. I think a lot of public analytics treat all runs as the same, and as a consequence, gap scheme runs are overweighted.

I know I've seen Baker is something like 4-4 on PA from ZBS stretch. Makes a ton of sense, allows Baker to see the whole field with little to no pressure and half the field cut off.

 

[Scholar]

I agree. I know Analytics say that teams should basically never run the football, but I think in the NFL, I think you pass to set up the run. The Browns did that magnificently this last game, where Baker put everyone on skates with those two PA passes and then the defense had no idea what to key on.

And when you give guys like Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt a small opening, it turns into gaping holes.

I think it also has to be remembered how important the run becomes later in the year in the AFC North once the weather turns to absolute shit. Many times late in the year the bad weather conditions turn out to be more of in impediment to the passing attack then the opposing defense. So, being able to run effectively and sustain drives becomes very imperative.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Of course. But, I don't see a back who does that. When I see this take, I hear someone who doesn't watch the game, and repeats a bad take.

So Pat Shurmur didn't watch the games he was coaching?

You want backs that are all athlete without the vision? That's Tevin Coleman's career. That's Trent Richardson. That's Miles Sanders last year.

I never said that Barkley lacked vision, or had no vision, nor did @Jack Brickman. This was a comparison of Chubb and Barkley, and all that was said what that Chubb has better vision that Barkley. The place some folks see Barkley falling behind Chubb in terms of "vision" is when he tries to bounce too many players outside. But you don't see that happening, so....there's really nowhere else to go with this.