Renaming the Cleveland baseball team (NOT FOR DEFENDING "INDIANS")

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Select a name for the Cleveland baseball team

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Cleveland Indians holdouts denying the name change, "Bitch don't kill my Tribe"
 
Lee said:
Says the guy with Chief Wahoo in his avatar, lol
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I've had that for years and it's apart of the Cleveland Baseball history so it's nothing to be ashamed of! Lol I am not changing it. I actually don't like the name change so I am doing my silent protest, but I don't need to talk about it haha
 
sportscoach said:
I've had that for years and it's apart of the Cleveland Baseball history so it's nothing to be ashamed of! Lol I am not changing it. I actually don't like the name change so I am doing my silent protest, but I don't need to talk about it haha
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Since things are going to get purged anyways, here's a question. I don't mean this as a "Gotcha!" or to make you feel bad, but more a question that I'm curious your feelings on--or even if you don't respond, just hope it's something you think about moving forward. I'm absolutely not saying that your affection for the cartoon is the same as the examples.

If an actor came out in blackface today, and tried to claim it's nothing to be ashamed of--it's part of the history of cinema and I'm not changing, what would you think?

What about someone dropping hard-r n-words because the word is a part of American history, nothing to be ashamed of, and he's not changing his pattern of speech?

What about someone in the KKK because his father and grandfather were? After all, it's part of their family history. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and he's not going to change tradition.

Again, I'm not saying your affection for Wahoo is similar, or just as bad, as any of the examples.

Personally, I think that there is often things in our history that are unpleasant to think about. When we don't think about them, we often defend our feelings with irrational arguments.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Since things are going to get purged anyways, here's a question. I don't mean this as a "Gotcha!" or to make you feel bad, but more a question that I'm curious your feelings on--or even if you don't respond, just hope it's something you think about moving forward. I'm absolutely not saying that your affection for the cartoon is the same as the examples.

If an actor came out in blackface today, and tried to claim it's nothing to be ashamed of--it's part of the history of cinema and I'm not changing, what would you think?

What about someone dropping hard-r n-words because the word is a part of American history, nothing to be ashamed of, and he's not changing his pattern of speech?

What about someone in the KKK because his father and grandfather were? After all, it's part of their family history. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and he's not going to change tradition.

Again, I'm not saying your affection for Wahoo is similar, or just as bad, as any of the examples.

Personally, I think that there is often things in our history that are unpleasant to think about. When we don't think about them, we often defend our feelings with irrational arguments.
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This is just my opinion and my reasoning, though semi-bad place to put it...

For me it's more of this... I never saw Indians in its negative form in a sense. I know why the name happened the way it did, but I always saw "Indians" as a warrior people who stood up to foreign oppressors.

Also Wahoo was originally a mascot that was derogatory and supposed to make fun of the people, but instead many Native Americans (in my mind, from the many things I read and saw from interviewing them) kind of eventually laughed it off and ran with it. Some even enjoyed him in the end. It wasn't the majority of the Natives that were protesting the name, in my mind, but the "woken" whites who really shouldn't have much of a say... (men should have a say in woman's health rights so Non-Natives shouldn't have a say in what's right or wrong for them).

Also baseball was one of the few things I did with my dad growing up and I got to watch Major league (even though I was a little young for it haha). It's more of a symbol that represents Cleveland baseball and stopped representing what it originally did and started actually ended up being more of the crazy uncle type of thing.

Trust me I know not the best to say. I don't come from a family that used the N-word, nor apart of the KKK etc... So I get your meaning, but none of those really ever got laughed off and the people instead enjoyed the moniker... I grew up the brunt of people ridicule and everything so rather than get upset with things, I just went with it and moved on... I learned, you know what, life was so much better after that since the words/actions no longer had any effect on me
 
For all of you who were Guardian fans as kids as someone who wasn't, I always thought the Chief Wahoo logo was super cornball and have never bought a single piece of merch with it.
 
bronko said:
But in the case of a 100 year old team mascot, it's nothing to be ashamed of, and not in the same category as your examples. But, I'm not here to respond to your comment, I was just adding the following observation.
I am not ridding myself of my wahoo tattoo, but I don't have a problem with the name change. A name is just a name. A majority of people I see think the change was unnecessary, with varying degrees of vehemence, but they'll swing around in due time. Many people struggle with change. Some folks are frustrated that people can't make changes immediately. The Chief is part of the team legacy,
Please keep these discussions over in the Guardian's Central Division Championship thread, where they belong.
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My personal take summed up about as succinctly as I can:

Person A: "Uh, really? A Chief Wahoo tattoo? I can't believe anyone would get that racist caricature tattooed on their body"
Person B: "Yeah, I just liked the baseball team. I didn't know about the history."

Cool.

Person A: "Uh, really? A Chief Wahoo tattoo? I can't believe anyone would get that racist caricature tattooed on their body"
Person B: "I'M NOT A RACIST!"

Uncool.
 
sportscoach said:
This is just my opinion and my reasoning, though semi-bad place to put it...

For me it's more of this... I never saw Indians in its negative form in a sense. I know why the name happened the way it did, but I always saw "Indians" as a warrior people who stood up to foreign oppressors.

Also Wahoo was originally a mascot that was derogatory and supposed to make fun of the people, but instead many Native Americans (in my mind, from the many things I read and saw from interviewing them) kind of eventually laughed it off and ran with it. Some even enjoyed him in the end. It wasn't the majority of the Natives that were protesting the name, in my mind, but the "woken" whites who really shouldn't have much of a say... (men should have a say in woman's health rights so Non-Natives shouldn't have a say in what's right or wrong for them).

Also baseball was one of the few things I did with my dad growing up and I got to watch Major league (even though I was a little young for it haha). It's more of a symbol that represents Cleveland baseball and stopped representing what it originally did and started actually ended up being more of the crazy uncle type of thing.

Trust me I know not the best to say. I don't come from a family that used the N-word, nor apart of the KKK etc... So I get your meaning, but none of those really ever got laughed off and the people instead enjoyed the moniker... I grew up the brunt of people ridicule and everything so rather than get upset with things, I just went with it and moved on... I learned, you know what, life was so much better after that since the words/actions no longer had any effect on me
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I think people get hung up on some things and cling to them to defend bad positions.

Just because most native people didn't feel personally offended by the team name doesn't mean it wasn't problematic. Shit, there could be absolutely no native people being offended by something, but as long as the team name (or mascot) is being used to denigrate a group of people in the minds of others, that's something I like to see us move past.

People throw around "woke" and shit like that so freely as insults, but nobody is really offended, triggered, or whatever the hot word of the day is. It's just seeing something negative in the world that's easily fixable and going "Hey, can we be better moving forward?"
 
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Criznit said:
For all of you who were Guardian fans as kids as someone who wasn't, I always thought the Chief Wahoo logo was super cornball and have never bought a single piece of merch with it.
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I liked it. We had a giant Wahoo wood cutout sign that we put up in our front yard when I was a kid.

I don't think many people who grow up with the baseball team know of the past, or just how racist that big-headed, red-skinned, giant crooked nose caricature is.
 
Sounds like person A needs to mind their own GD business
 
Mind you, what's the difference between Tribe/Braves/Chiefs?

And why are the Indianapolis Indians still a thing? Not enough protesting, probably zero times ever for a little farmhand team. No, attack the big money organization instead.
 
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Criznit said:
For all of you who were Guardian fans as kids as someone who wasn't, I always thought the Chief Wahoo logo was super cornball and have never bought a single piece of merch with it.
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If you grew up with the team you watched being a silly mascot, you may not be 100% happy it was changed...

To each our own as well...
 
sportscoach said:
If you grew up with the team you watched being a silly mascot, you may not be 100% happy it was changed...

To each our own as well...
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And I get that sting.. Glad you accept it even with your crummy avatar.... I kid I kid... mostly.
 
Real Deal said:
I just doubt that goes over well for huge fan bases. But we'll see.
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It would be interesting to face off against the Braves in the series.... I am sure this subject will be tossed around if that's the case.
 
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