sportscoach
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Nope, but you cannot win without giving potential a shot either...
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Second half 22 GM Thread!
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Nope, but you cannot win without giving potential a shot either...
Out of the Rafters at the Q
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I'm actually pretty much in-line with Cats on this one. If Espino can help get us a premium piece that fits perfectly with our contention window, I'm willing to trade him. There is always so much risk with injuries and things with young pitchers.
I'm just not sure what that premium, available piece is. I'm definitely not trading Espino for Sean Murphy.
For what it's worth, I also had similar feelings when TMac was rising--and he's panned out. Maybe I'm just a risk-averse bitch.
I'm just not sure what that premium, available piece is. I'm definitely not trading Espino for Sean Murphy.
For what it's worth, I also had similar feelings when TMac was rising--and he's panned out. Maybe I'm just a risk-averse bitch.
Gson
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Young catchers/position players have injury risk as well.. being healthy, is a skill...
...and I don't think you're risk averse...
Out of the Rafters at the Q
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So just a bitch?
sportscoach
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So just a bitch?
Pretty much lol
KluberSociety
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Maybe we could trade them Brennan or Benson or whoever else is apparently better than Straw, they'd give back quite the haul
Criznit
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Maybe we can trade Straw back to them?
KluberSociety
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I like Straw though...Maybe we can trade Straw back to them?
CDAV45
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I didn't even consider that, but it's a great idea. The best idea I've seen in quite some time. Good job Criz!Maybe we can trade Straw back to them?
Just before we start the GM for 2023 (or Nov 2022), the key thing that Tito/Chris said was that they did not want to muddy the water. They are going back to what they said at the beginning of the year - we are not going to get a vet that just blocks someone.
It also goes back to what the assistant GM said about a month ago ... winning is fun yet we think we can also win playoff games with these kids. It means that they are not focused on 2022 but 2024.
Next year is going to be interesting with our AAA pitchers ... Curry, Allen, Gaddis, Morris, Battenfield, Pilkington with Espino, Cantillo and Williams not that far behind. They need to get some looks soon. We are going to be trading Plesac and Civale and maybe Bieber in the next year or so ... thus why get a Mahle or others (other than at right cost to make a gain next year at deadline)?
And yes, we could have used a relief pitcher over Shaw... but again, he is our 7th/8th guy behind our top 7 (Clase, Steph, Kar, Santos, Sandlin, Hentges, Morgan) -- some have had their ups and downs but they are under 2 years of service. They need those pressure situations to solidify their development.
They could have used a bat but it wasn't going to come at cost of Benson, Jones or Oscar and surely not Kwan, Jose, Rosario or Gimenez. It was just the catching market which seemed rich as the catchers we targets Contreras and Murphy stayed pat, even with other teams going after them (maybe Oakland has their own Rule 5 issues and wanted to keep a vet to be a leader - catcher being a great position for that).
We could have gotten our catcher (O'Hoppe) for a center fielder Straw, but they like him despite the pundits here.
If we were out of the race, Plesac and Rosario could have been on the market. However, they are not rushing Battenfield even for these DH and Civale injury. Sounds like he has control work he is doing that is better done at AAA. And, they have one more shot to extend Rosario before Nov now but they also do not want to mess with Gimenez (keep on switching him between 2nd and SS). They may rethink this in the offseason where he has time to adjust to the role they want him in (kind of like Ramirez a few years back with 2nd/3rd) - won't switch him now that he has All-Star bat.
It also goes back to what the assistant GM said about a month ago ... winning is fun yet we think we can also win playoff games with these kids. It means that they are not focused on 2022 but 2024.
Next year is going to be interesting with our AAA pitchers ... Curry, Allen, Gaddis, Morris, Battenfield, Pilkington with Espino, Cantillo and Williams not that far behind. They need to get some looks soon. We are going to be trading Plesac and Civale and maybe Bieber in the next year or so ... thus why get a Mahle or others (other than at right cost to make a gain next year at deadline)?
And yes, we could have used a relief pitcher over Shaw... but again, he is our 7th/8th guy behind our top 7 (Clase, Steph, Kar, Santos, Sandlin, Hentges, Morgan) -- some have had their ups and downs but they are under 2 years of service. They need those pressure situations to solidify their development.
They could have used a bat but it wasn't going to come at cost of Benson, Jones or Oscar and surely not Kwan, Jose, Rosario or Gimenez. It was just the catching market which seemed rich as the catchers we targets Contreras and Murphy stayed pat, even with other teams going after them (maybe Oakland has their own Rule 5 issues and wanted to keep a vet to be a leader - catcher being a great position for that).
We could have gotten our catcher (O'Hoppe) for a center fielder Straw, but they like him despite the pundits here.
If we were out of the race, Plesac and Rosario could have been on the market. However, they are not rushing Battenfield even for these DH and Civale injury. Sounds like he has control work he is doing that is better done at AAA. And, they have one more shot to extend Rosario before Nov now but they also do not want to mess with Gimenez (keep on switching him between 2nd and SS). They may rethink this in the offseason where he has time to adjust to the role they want him in (kind of like Ramirez a few years back with 2nd/3rd) - won't switch him now that he has All-Star bat.
When you extend a player his trade value immediately goes up, because his control and cost become fixed, which is an important consideration to organizations trying to set future budgets...which they all do. Those extensions also take inflationary considerations out of the equation.
If I'm the GM, I'm targeting four players for extension talks as soon as the season ends.
Amed
Gimenez
Bieber
Quantrill
Along with Jose, the acknowledged leaders on this team are Amed, Bieber, and Quantrill. Gimenez is blowing up into our next player in the Jose-Lindor-Brantley mode.
I've also spent several years watching pitchers get hurt, and either get set back, become unavailable, or lose effectiveness.
Bieber, Civale, Plesac, Morris, Cantillo, Espino, Hankins, Torres.
Even though I have a lot of good looking pitchers on paper, I also know that a lot of them are going to disappear.
I see a big four of Espino, Williams, Allen, and Bibee that on paper should be ready to take on a full MLB load in 2024, but I know that will not happen. Unlike fans, I know this isn't a video game in which nobody gets hurt. I will have beaten the odds if two of them are productive for a full season in 2024.
Therefore, while I hope for the best, I'm surely not making plans that entail depending on the best.
I'm overseeing an org that six years ago made a change in its philosophy of acquiring young position players...from tools to skills. I've watched a vast majority of our highly thought of toolsy prospects fall flat, while watch our young skills players produce at the MLB level.
I'm willing to trade any of my young tools players and risky pitching prospects for sure MLB upgrades. There is a market inefficiency that values potential over production that I want to take advantage of....and I have the prospects and financial flexibility to do so.
If I'm the GM, I'm targeting four players for extension talks as soon as the season ends.
Amed
Gimenez
Bieber
Quantrill
Along with Jose, the acknowledged leaders on this team are Amed, Bieber, and Quantrill. Gimenez is blowing up into our next player in the Jose-Lindor-Brantley mode.
I've also spent several years watching pitchers get hurt, and either get set back, become unavailable, or lose effectiveness.
Bieber, Civale, Plesac, Morris, Cantillo, Espino, Hankins, Torres.
Even though I have a lot of good looking pitchers on paper, I also know that a lot of them are going to disappear.
I see a big four of Espino, Williams, Allen, and Bibee that on paper should be ready to take on a full MLB load in 2024, but I know that will not happen. Unlike fans, I know this isn't a video game in which nobody gets hurt. I will have beaten the odds if two of them are productive for a full season in 2024.
Therefore, while I hope for the best, I'm surely not making plans that entail depending on the best.
I'm overseeing an org that six years ago made a change in its philosophy of acquiring young position players...from tools to skills. I've watched a vast majority of our highly thought of toolsy prospects fall flat, while watch our young skills players produce at the MLB level.
I'm willing to trade any of my young tools players and risky pitching prospects for sure MLB upgrades. There is a market inefficiency that values potential over production that I want to take advantage of....and I have the prospects and financial flexibility to do so.
CDAV45
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They werent' going to pay top price for a C that is likely to be a backup to Naylor and they aren't going to "platoon" Bo either. If Naylor and Lavastida both fall flat then that's when they'll be more aggressive trying to acquire a C. It doesn't make sense to spend your most valuable, upper level prospects on a player that very possibly could be less than what you're giving up.
I don't believe for one second that they are going to extend Bieber. They tried and he wasn't having it. His thoughts around an extension might have changed with his injury, but he isn't worth what he was then IMO. I can see Gimenez being offered and accepting a deal, but that won't happen until after next season if he performs as he has this year. I love Amed, but he isn't a longterm fit for this team. The fact that he is not only providing us with good play, but driving his value up is awesome for this organization. Civale and Plesac don't have the talent to remain in Cleveland's rotation longterm. They are going to get steamrolled by the pitching talent coming up.
Anybody can't sit back and armchair quarterback prospects. There's literally hundreds of them in every organization. Just keep your eye on the ones that matter. They have a high probability of finding ML success.
Funny how some are willing to trade the toolsy prospects for MLB upgrades that were "toolsy prospects" themselves. There isn't a market inefficiency or some of these prospects would have been dealt. Amed would have been dealt, but there wasn't a market for him. Plesac would have been dealt, but there obviously wasn't a market for him either. We can all say we would have done this or done that, but how do you know they didn't try to do that and there were no takers or the offers were shit?
Other than a RHH, big 1B bat that can rotate with Naylor at DH what would they even target right now? The OF is going to consist of some sort of mix between Kwan, Straw, Jones, OGon, Benson, Brennan and Valera. 3B is fairly secure I'd say. MIF is loaded. C has 2 very good, near ready prospects that could probably outperform the current duo now. They don't have a SP that reaches FA until 2025 with all of Espino, Williams, Bibee, Cantillo, Morris, Battenfield, Allen, Curry, Burns, Hankins and Pilkington all in the upper levels developing quickly. For the most part these are not run of the mill SP prospects either.
Production is coming from all sorts of players. It's why OGon(118) and Jones(115) are carrying OPS+'s right there with Kwan's(118). Hopefully Benson can follow suit because if he can then hold on to your shit because he's more talented than Kwan, OGon, and Jones. Yep, he could fail, but he could also explode and you have to find out while in the current state of affairs which is fucking finding out what your prospects can do. Talent matters. It always has and it always will, but that doesn't mean they can't draft better skilled kids too.
I don't believe for one second that they are going to extend Bieber. They tried and he wasn't having it. His thoughts around an extension might have changed with his injury, but he isn't worth what he was then IMO. I can see Gimenez being offered and accepting a deal, but that won't happen until after next season if he performs as he has this year. I love Amed, but he isn't a longterm fit for this team. The fact that he is not only providing us with good play, but driving his value up is awesome for this organization. Civale and Plesac don't have the talent to remain in Cleveland's rotation longterm. They are going to get steamrolled by the pitching talent coming up.
Anybody can't sit back and armchair quarterback prospects. There's literally hundreds of them in every organization. Just keep your eye on the ones that matter. They have a high probability of finding ML success.
Funny how some are willing to trade the toolsy prospects for MLB upgrades that were "toolsy prospects" themselves. There isn't a market inefficiency or some of these prospects would have been dealt. Amed would have been dealt, but there wasn't a market for him. Plesac would have been dealt, but there obviously wasn't a market for him either. We can all say we would have done this or done that, but how do you know they didn't try to do that and there were no takers or the offers were shit?
Other than a RHH, big 1B bat that can rotate with Naylor at DH what would they even target right now? The OF is going to consist of some sort of mix between Kwan, Straw, Jones, OGon, Benson, Brennan and Valera. 3B is fairly secure I'd say. MIF is loaded. C has 2 very good, near ready prospects that could probably outperform the current duo now. They don't have a SP that reaches FA until 2025 with all of Espino, Williams, Bibee, Cantillo, Morris, Battenfield, Allen, Curry, Burns, Hankins and Pilkington all in the upper levels developing quickly. For the most part these are not run of the mill SP prospects either.
Production is coming from all sorts of players. It's why OGon(118) and Jones(115) are carrying OPS+'s right there with Kwan's(118). Hopefully Benson can follow suit because if he can then hold on to your shit because he's more talented than Kwan, OGon, and Jones. Yep, he could fail, but he could also explode and you have to find out while in the current state of affairs which is fucking finding out what your prospects can do. Talent matters. It always has and it always will, but that doesn't mean they can't draft better skilled kids too.
sportscoach
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I really don't doubt that right now, Gimenez will get an extension offer of some type... Amed is going to be a flip of the coin whether or not he is in Cleveland in 23... To be sincere, if we don't get a good offer for him, they have to keep him...