The 2020 Cleveland Indians

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Gson

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We already did, how do you think we locked him down through 2023?
Yeah.. it was a fair contract at the time..

5 years/$26M (2017-21), w/ club options that could bring the value of the contract to $50 MM or slightly more if he achieves all the performance incentives.. He signed the extension on March 25, 2017 after he had been officially renewed at $0.5714M by CleFO.. That contract, however, was torn up and was replaced with a $0.57 M contract for 2017 along with a signing bonus of $ 2.0 MM. The 2018 through 2021 years were $ 2.43 MM, $3.75 MM, $6.25 MM & $9.00 MM. Two addition club option years were tacked on the end of the contract for 2022 @ $11 MM with a $2 MM buyout and $13 MM for 2023 with no buy out..

This is / was a good deal for Jose.. and the Indians, win/win..
 

TxBuckeye

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Yeah.. it was a fair contract at the time..

5 years/$26M (2017-21), w/ club options that could bring the value of the contract to $50 MM or slightly more if he achieves all the performance incentives.. He signed the extension on March 25, 2017 after he had been officially renewed at $0.5714M by CleFO.. That contract, however, was torn up and was replaced with a $0.57 M contract for 2017 along with a signing bonus of $ 2.0 MM. The 2018 through 2021 years were $ 2.43 MM, $3.75 MM, $6.25 MM & $9.00 MM. Two addition club option years were tacked on the end of the contract for 2022 @ $11 MM with a $2 MM buyout and $13 MM for 2023 with no buy out..

This is / was a good deal for Jose.. and the Indians, win/win..
So 7 yrs for 50 mil is a good deal for Ramirez? lol. How much has he given up in arbitration had he gone that route? This was a good deal for him for a year or two. This has been a GREAT deal for Cleveland. Now lock him up for his career like Milwaukee did.
 

Derek

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So 7 yrs for 50 mil is a good deal for Ramirez? lol. How much has he given up in arbitration had he gone that route? This was a good deal for him for a year or two. This has been a GREAT deal for Cleveland. Now lock him up for his career like Milwaukee did.
That's the beauty of how the Indians extend guys. They bet on Ramirez and it has paid off handsomely.

Ramirez got paid a lot more upfront and got financial security for a lifetime. If he comes back down to Earth after 2016 (Yes, the Indians gave him that extension after just one good season), then he makes out like a bandit.
 

Gson

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So 7 yrs for 50 mil is a good deal for Ramirez? lol. How much has he given up in arbitration had he gone that route? This was a good deal for him for a year or two. This has been a GREAT deal for Cleveland. Now lock him up for his career like Milwaukee did.
... over the age of 30..diminishing returns can be expected.. CleFO would be inclined to pass on an "end of your career" type deal with JRam.. imho..
 

TxBuckeye

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That's the beauty of how the Indians extend guys. They bet on Ramirez and it has paid off handsomely.

Ramirez got paid a lot more upfront and got financial security for a lifetime. If he comes back down to Earth after 2016 (Yes, the Indians gave him that extension after just one good season), then he makes out like a bandit.
But he hasn't which goes back to my original point of a Yelich type deal and make this guy an Indian for the bulk of his career.
 

TxBuckeye

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... over the age of 30..diminishing returns can be expected.. CleFO would be inclined to pass on an "end of your career" type deal with JRam.. imho..
Oh I understand how the Cleveland FO works and it sucks sometimes. I am in no way saying give him a deal that runs until he's 40. If he plays out his contract and options with Cleveland he's 31. Best he's getting on the open market is probably 6-7 years? Buy out those two option years and add on 4-5 more at a price that works for both sides and keep this guy here.

As a life long Tribe fan I know the realities of getting attached to homegrown guys. It is what it is but it sure would be nice to see them keep some of their own home. I love Carrasco for doing what he did and also the Tribe FO for committing to him. How about another of our own who has earned it.

I get the diminishing returns thing but not everybody falls off a cliff when they hit 30.
 

Gson

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Oh I understand how the Cleveland FO works and it sucks sometimes. I am in no way saying give him a deal that runs until he's 40. If he plays out his contract and options with Cleveland he's 31. Best he's getting on the open market is probably 6-7 years? Buy out those two option years and add on 4-5 more at a price that works for both sides and keep this guy here.

As a life long Tribe fan I know the realities of getting attached to homegrown guys. It is what it is but it sure would be nice to see them keep some of their own home. I love Carrasco for doing what he did and also the Tribe FO for committing to him. How about another of our own who has earned it.

I get the diminishing returns thing but not everybody falls off a cliff when they hit 30.
The cold hard reality is.. at age 31.. 80 +/- of peak production would be considered a "good year".. For each subsequent year and accelerating by a small percentage would be considered "good years".. e.g. for age 31 season.. 80 %.. at 32 season 72 %.. and so on.. By the time a six year contract is ending.. half production will be pitied as a good year.. There are a handful of contract where the player beat this kind of diminishing returns.. but, there are 10 or more for everyone that does that.. The Indians make their bones on drafting and trading for young talent..and moving them before they are too expensive..

As far as deserving.. these players deserve to be rewarded handsomely for their dedication and skills as MLB players.. They deserve our loyalty.. They deserve our support.. They don't derserve to be 20 to 50 % of the entire ML payroll..and you fully understand that...

Another factor is how prepared the Indians minor league system is to replace these guys.. it's the only factor that is close to fully unknown.. everything else has a component of understanding..

good conversation..
 

Obscured By Clouds

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Oh I understand how the Cleveland FO works and it sucks sometimes. I am in no way saying give him a deal that runs until he's 40. If he plays out his contract and options with Cleveland he's 31. Best he's getting on the open market is probably 6-7 years? Buy out those two option years and add on 4-5 more at a price that works for both sides and keep this guy here.

As a life long Tribe fan I know the realities of getting attached to homegrown guys. It is what it is but it sure would be nice to see them keep some of their own home. I love Carrasco for doing what he did and also the Tribe FO for committing to him. How about another of our own who has earned it.

I get the diminishing returns thing but not everybody falls off a cliff when they hit 30.
You are literally arguing to extend someone that will dedicate a good chunk of the payroll to one player, just because 'not all players decline after 30?' That's not a good gamble.
 

Derek

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Adding on 4-5 years beyond his option years doesn't sound like something that would work out well for us, but I would certainly be open to working something out where he might get more money up front, perhaps by us tacking on a few more million onto his option years and getting another 2-3 years of control on the back end.

5 years $85M starting in 2022?

He gets an extra $10M in 2022/23 and we add three years of control through his age-34 season. That's probably the most I would want to do.
 

TxBuckeye

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Adding on 4-5 years beyond his option years doesn't sound like something that would work out well for us, but I would certainly be open to working something out where he might get more money up front, perhaps by us tacking on a few more million onto his option years and getting another 2-3 years of control on the back end.

5 years $85M starting in 2022?

He gets an extra $10M in 2022/23 and we add three years of control through his age-34 season. That's probably the most I would want to do.
So you just laid out exactly what I said (the years anyway. Didn't get into the $$$ piece of it). Reread what I said.
 

TxBuckeye

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You are literally arguing to extend someone that will dedicate a good chunk of the payroll to one player, just because 'not all players decline after 30?' That's not a good gamble.
Yes I am. And that is pretty lazy to say it is just because "not all players decline". You know damn well my point was Ramirez is a pretty good ballplayer and doesn't really seem to be slowing down. I am not advocating offering him $30 mil/yr or whatever the open market would command. I am saying since he realizes he is hitting FA at an age where he won't be getting that 8-10 year deal you offer him something that works for both sides and give Ramirez some security through his early to mid 30's. You give him 6-7 years and pay him through his age 34 season is a gamble I'm willing to take.
 
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Derek

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So you just laid out exactly what I said (the years anyway. Didn't get into the $$$ piece of it). Reread what I said.
Just coming up with ideas, man. I didn’t even quote your post, so you shouldn’t take what I said as a direct response to you.
 
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