The 2020 Cleveland Indians

[Wham with the Right Hand]

If we move Santana who takes his place? It's not like we have anyone else right now who has been a consistent hitter. So even if we wanted to mix things up, its not like we really have much of a choice. I think the lineup ends up the same as it is now.

Which is why we won't advance in the playoffs this year absent some absolutely dominant pitching performances by both our starters and bullpen.

 

[Derek]

Which is why we won't advance in the playoffs this year absent some absolutely dominant pitching performances by both our starters and bullpen.

Or you know, Santana starts hitting, which isn’t the remote possibility some seem to think it is. I’d argue it’s actually more likely than not.

 

[Gson]

Or you know, Santana starts hitting, which isn’t the remote possibility some seem to think it is. I’d argue it’s actually more likely than not.

If you're watching the same Santana that I'm watching.. agreement is in the offing, especially right handed.. His swing is shortening.. and he's right on the ball.. He still needs to retain his balance a little better.. but, it's coming.. no bout a doubt it..

Thoughts?.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

If you're watching the same Santana that I'm watching.. agreement is in the offing, especially right handed.. His swing is shortening.. and he's right on the ball.. He still needs to retain his balance a little better.. but, it's coming.. no bout a doubt it..

Thoughts?.

He's hitting .169 against RHP's and .259 against lefties. I have seen no indications that he's going to start hitting from the left side. I like him right-handed, though. Three home runs and 10 RBI's in only 54 at-bats. Multipy by ten and it's 30 HR's and 100 RBI's in 540 AB's. Multiply his left side at-bats by four and it's 520 AB's, 12 HR's, and 60 RBI's.

 

[LL3]

No stats matter once the 3 game playoff starts - none. For all their faults, the Tribe is not a fun playoff draw...the pitching can be scary, and all you need is a few guys to get hot. We could be swept out in two, but I like our chances in All these shorts series.

 

[Criznit]

If you're watching the same Santana that I'm watching.. agreement is in the offing, especially right handed.. His swing is shortening.. and he's right on the ball.. He still needs to retain his balance a little better.. but, it's coming.. no bout a doubt it..

Thoughts?.

I'm hoping he is coming on... strong... if I had to count on anyone on the team bouncing back from a slump, it's him.

 

[Gson]

He's hitting .169 against RHP's and .259 against lefties. I have seen no indications that he's going to start hitting from the left side. I like him right-handed, though. Three home runs and 10 RBI's in only 54 at-bats. Multipy by ten and it's 30 HR's and 100 RBI's in 540 AB's. Multiply his left side at-bats by four and it's 520 AB's, 12 HR's, and 60 RBI's.

The season's numbers, especially hitting from the left side, show he's just not getting the barrel of the bat on the ball.. In almost every instance where you have a hitter not making the kind of customary contact he's known for.. it's a mechanical adjustment.. and there is indication that is coming.. (things you see.. where his hands are in relation to the opening of his hips.. where his head is, balance.. tempo of the swing, etc) not what he's done.. but what he's doing and what it should create..

Very different.. Thoughts?..

Edit: I saw this article after I posted the above: https://www.mlb.com/news/carlos-santana-homers-against-white-sox

 

[Derek]

Jose is now alone by himself as the MLB leader in fWAR

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The season's numbers, especially hitting from the left side, show he's just not getting the barrel of the bat on the ball.. In almost every instance where you have a hitter not making the kind of customary contact he's known for.. it's a mechanical adjustment.. and there is indication that is coming.. (things you see.. where his hands are in relation to the opening of his hips.. where his head is, balance.. tempo of the swing, etc) not what he's done.. but what he's doing and what it should create..

Very different.. Thoughts?..

Edit: I saw this article after I posted the above: https://www.mlb.com/news/carlos-santana-homers-against-white-sox

Santana has had 132 AB's against right-handed pitching and he's hitting .167. When are these mechanical adjustments going to come?

July .240
Aug .204
Sep .162

Is it possible he has lost some bat speed from the left side at age 34? Alomar said the other day he's getting beat by the fastball. I'm seeing him get ahead in the count, get a fastball in the zone, and beat it into the ground, foul it off, or pop it up. When he manages to hit a ball hard it's usually a ground ball into the shift. As a dead pull hitter who rarely goes the other way his only hope of getting hits is hitting line drives, but I'm not seeing many from the left side.

He's also drawing fewer walks as pitchers are learning he's not going to hurt them with the bat. His on-base percentages:

July .406
Aug .380
Sep .278

He's been trending down the entire season. I'm very skeptical that he'll suddenly start hitting from the left side. Since Aug. 1 his batting average has been fluctuating between .167 and .229; now it's at .194. He has 2 hits in his last 24 AB's - both hitting right-handed.

 

[Gson]

Santana has had 132 AB's against right-handed pitching and he's hitting .167. When are these mechanical adjustments going to come?

July .240
Aug .204
Sep .162

Is it possible he has lost some bat speed from the left side at age 34? Alomar said the other day he's getting beat by the fastball. I'm seeing him get ahead in the count, get a fastball in the zone, and beat it into the ground, foul it off, or pop it up. When he manages to hit a ball hard it's usually a ground ball into the shift. As a dead pull hitter who rarely goes the other way his only hope of getting hits is hitting line drives, but I'm not seeing many from the left side.

He's also drawing fewer walks as pitchers are learning he's not going to hurt them with the bat. His on-base percentages:

July .406
Aug .380
Sep .278

He's been trending down the entire season. I'm very skeptical that he'll suddenly start hitting from the left side. Since Aug. 1 his batting average has been fluctuating between .167 and .229; now it's at .194. He has 2 hits in his last 24 AB's - both hitting right-handed.

statistically.. there is no argument.. numerical trends are what they are.. that isn't the point being made.. Attached to the original posting is a video of the fifth inning Santana home run batting right handed.. Look at the slow motion portion of the vid.. a clean, balanced swing with his head behind the ball and the extension through the hitting zone.. That's the Carlos Santana swing we have enjoyed for many years.. When you look at his left handed swings.. it's almost like an amateur hacker's swing on the golf course.. no tempo.. no balance.. jumping at the ball.. head all over the place.. I believe Carlos is one of the guys (and there are more than one) that has been hurt by the lack of video support in the batting cages while the Tribe is at bat.. Without the crowds... no video support.. we get "Jumpy Carlos".. Tonight, we saw confident, balanced Carlos.. I hope we see a lot more of that swing from both sides of the plate..

.. and no more statistics as an explanation for a swing clearly awry...

Thoughts?..

 

[TFIR]

Sandy Alomar Jr. humble, critical of his work as Indians’ acting manager

By Zack Meisel Sep 21, 2020 18
CLEVELAND — When Sandy Alomar Jr. managed the Indians during the final week of the 2012 season, there were no expectations. The conclusion of the schedule served as salvation after a summer slog swelled the team’s loss total to 94.
Alomar could have treated the week as an audition for the job he coveted and, ultimately, interviewed for, but no one was going to evaluate him based on how the team fared over the course of six, just-get-these-over-with games. If Russ Canzler and Brent Lillibridge didn’t hit for a week, it wouldn’t be an indictment of Alomar’s leadership ability or skill as an in-game tactician.
Still, Terry Francona ended up being hired as the team’s new manager.
In the years that followed, Alomar interviewed for a handful of managerial vacancies, even reaching the final interview stage on multiple occasions. But he remained on Terry Francona’s staff in Cleveland, initially as bench coach and then as first-base coach. He has worked closely with the club’s catchers, too.
This year, with Francona sidelined and Brad Mills opting out, he was thrust into the role of commander. There was a chain reaction of coaching movement as Ty Van Burkleo opted out as well and Mike Sarbaugh shifted to the bench. That resulted in new first- and third-base coaches, new faces in the dugout and new approaches to making decisions during a season in which nothing seems normal.
So, it’s no wonder that Alomar has repeatedly joked that he wished Francona would return “yesterday.” Alomar, 54, wasn’t exactly expecting to inherit so much responsibility this season. And that’s not to say he has complained about it. He has been fixated on directing the Indians to the postseason, and he’d be the first to admit it hasn’t always been the smoothest ride.
Take last Wednesday, for example. The previous night, moments after the Indians lost to the Cubs on a walk-off hit-by-pitch, I asked Alomar why he had ordered light-hitting Sandy León to the plate in a critical spot in the eighth inning. Alomar isn’t used to being second-guessed. These aren’t usually his decisions to make. Now, they often stem from collaboration with Sarbaugh and Carl Willis — and with data provided by the front office.
The next day, during a lull in his pregame session with reporters, Alomar smiled and quipped: “Got any suggestions for today, guys? (Who) should I pinch hit, stuff like that? Just let me know. Write it down and send it up. Let me know. Send an email.”
That hasn’t been the only in-game choice subject to criticism in recent weeks. Alomar left Shane Bieber in to throw 118 pitches during a 10-run blowout in Detroit on Thursday night. He conferred with Bieber on the mound after pitch No. 114, and Bieber convinced him to let him continue. His 118th pitch sailed over the right-field fence for a three-run homer. Alomar swiftly returned to the mound and summoned Cam Hill from the bullpen.
“There’s times you question yourself,” Alomar said. “You say, ‘Yeah, I’m a human being, what the heck?’ This is the situation I am in that I wasn’t counting on being (in) this year. I’m learning as we go. When you win, nobody questions. Just win the games and everything will be OK.
“Yes, I do evaluate myself. I’m not perfect. People have valid points. I’m not critiquing people who are critiquing me. I’m just saying that when you’re in the dugout, things play out a little different at times. It might be a situation that the people who are critiquing do not know. Not trying to take offense, but sometimes you have to explain yourself like that.”

(David Richard / USA Today)
Alomar said he regularly heads home, flips on his Roku box and rewatches games to “see things from a different angle.”
“This is a very complicated situation because of how it happened,” he said, “and me being separated from the dugout and being the first-base coach and catching instructor. You can be in the game 50 years, but you’re separated from making decisions like that, and all of a sudden you’re making decisions, or at least appointed to (do) that. It gets a little hectic at times. But our group is great. I get a lot of help from Sarby, Carl and the rest of the guys. They’ve been amazing. But at the end of the day, yes, it doesn’t matter how much you played or how much baseball you watched if you haven’t done the practice as much. It tends to get fast.”
Sarbaugh has stressed to Alomar to be himself rather than guess what Francona would do in a particular situation. There has been plenty to juggle. Alomar has searched far and wide for a viable outfield combination. He has received input from other coaches and front office members, but he’s the one scribbling the names on the lineup card each night. He has also presided over four extra-inning affairs, which now demand all sorts of new strategies.
Perhaps his most challenging task, he said, is managing reliever usage while abiding by the new three-batter minimum rule. Oliver Pérez recently went a week without pitching. Adam Plutko hasn’t appeared in a game since Sept. 10. Brad Hand recently made one appearance in a 10-day stretch. He didn’t pitch in either walk-off loss to the Cubs. Alomar has, however, turned to James Karinchak when the club is desperate for a strikeout or two in a high-leverage situation, rather than simply pigeonholing him into the eighth inning.
“The new rule is very hard,” Alomar said. “We don’t want to put the pitcher in a situation that he has to face a batter that is sandwiched between two guys and has good numbers against him. … Certain teams have better matchups than others for our guys. This type of rule can ruin specialty pitchers’ careers because if you have a lefty that, all his career, he faced lefties, and all of a sudden you have to face a righty in between that (who) has an OPS of, like, 1.000, what are you going to do? You have to put him in there.
“I try to do the best I can. I take a lot of suggestions from Carl. He does a good job.”
Alomar did note that Plutko’s situation is “a difficult one” because he can offer long relief, and there’s a fear of deploying him for an inning or two one day and then needing to cover for an abbreviated start the next. Plutko should get sufficient work this week as the Indians assemble their pitching plans with an eye toward the postseason.
The game of musical chairs has also forced other coaches to adapt to roles they weren’t anticipating in 2020. All of the movement may be contributing to the Indians’ offensive woes or their league-leading number of base-running mishaps (24). Kyle Hudson was supposed to be an assistant coach and handle outfield alignment; now he’s coaching first base. Tony Mansolino was aiding with the daily procedures at the alternate site; now, he’s coaching third base for the Indians. Alex Eckelman, the organization’s director of hitting development, joined hitting gurus Victor Rodriguez and Justin Toole on staff to help replace Van Burkleo.
“You have to collaborate with everybody to get the best out of each other, but at times it can get complicated,” Alomar said. “And hopefully by the time we go to — if we make the postseason — then everything will be cleaned up. We cleaned up a lot of things. Hopefully, we can get better at that.”

 

[TFIR]

statistically.. there is no argument.. numerical trends are what they are.. that isn't the point being made.. Attached to the original posting is a video of the fifth inning Santana home run batting right handed.. Look at the slow motion portion of the vid.. a clean, balanced swing with his head behind the ball and the extension through the hitting zone.. That's the Carlos Santana swing we have enjoyed for many years.. When you look at his left handed swings.. it's almost like an amateur hacker's swing on the golf course.. no tempo.. no balance.. jumping at the ball.. head all over the place.. I believe Carlos is one of the guys (and there are more than one) that has been hurt by the lack of video support in the batting cages while the Tribe is at bat.. Without the crowds... no video support.. we get "Jumpy Carlos".. Tonight, we saw confident, balanced Carlos.. I hope we see a lot more of that swing from both sides of the plate..

.. and no more statistics as an explanation for a swing clearly awry...

Thoughts?..

Love that thought. JD Martinez and Javy Baez as the examples. I've also heard the idea put forth that he misses Tito. Remember when he left?

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

statistically.. there is no argument.. numerical trends are what they are.. that isn't the point being made.. Attached to the original posting is a video of the fifth inning Santana home run batting right handed.. Look at the slow motion portion of the vid.. a clean, balanced swing with his head behind the ball and the extension through the hitting zone.. That's the Carlos Santana swing we have enjoyed for many years.. When you look at his left handed swings.. it's almost like an amateur hacker's swing on the golf course.. no tempo.. no balance.. jumping at the ball.. head all over the place.. I believe Carlos is one of the guys (and there are more than one) that has been hurt by the lack of video support in the batting cages while the Tribe is at bat.. Without the crowds... no video support.. we get "Jumpy Carlos".. Tonight, we saw confident, balanced Carlos.. I hope we see a lot more of that swing from both sides of the plate..

.. and no more statistics as an explanation for a swing clearly awry...

Thoughts?..

I assume you're right about how screwed up his swing is from the left side - that would explain the numbers. But he certainly has access to the videos between each game as does the hitting coach. I'm assuming they are seeing the same things you are. So...after 54 games why haven't those issues been fixed?

FWIW, Rick Manning was saying he's "in between", meaning he's late on the fastball and out in front of the breaking balls. As a result he's not hitting anything except line drives foul down the right field line on breaking balls.

If his reaction time or bat speed has decreased it would explain why he's late on the fastball.

I hope it's a simple matter of smoothing things out, staying balanced, and not lunging but if it was that simple why hasn't he done it yet?

 

[Derek]

@Wham with the Right Hand
Why hasn’t he done it yet? Because baseball is tough.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

@Wham with the Right Hand
Why hasn’t he done it yet? Because baseball is tough.

Hosey isn't finding it all that tough. But I'm hoping Carlos figures it out in the next six games.