The 2020 Cleveland Indians

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Sebastian

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I mean i can still run a 100m in less than 13 seconds and I haven't competed in that in 15 years lol

@Sebastian
I've been pretty much 12 hours every day so I haven't felt like talking much on here and its not like there is any news

@Stark
I so agree with being bored. I need baseball now and I think as a nation as a whole I think having sports on TV, would make things get more back to normal in my mind.
I'm glad you are well, and safe, if not somewhat languid and bored.

I spend way too much time watching TV these days. I am running out of new material to watch.

I have been playing a lot of RPGs lately since they are time consuming.
 

6.19.2016

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Watch the Korean league. Actually not too bad.
As I said, I'm surprised that there weren't issues with them after Seoul metro had to close down bars again a few days ago - one bar cluster had nearly 100 cases.

Last I checked, KBO was operating on 3-week leaguewide delays if a single player or staff tested positive; it doesn't appear the NBA, at least, will go to that level of precaution.

@Sebastian
I've been pretty much 12 hours every day so I haven't felt like talking much on here and its not like there is any news

@Stark
I so agree with being bored. I need baseball now and I think as a nation as a whole I think having sports on TV, would make things get more back to normal in my mind.
Again....bread, circuses. Human nature never changes.

I'm glad that it appears that US health officials are helping a path towards restarting the circuses.
 
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MadThinker88

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I noticed a couple of things over on MLBTR today.

1) is a mental exercise of possible MLB expansion. IF happening right now, who should the Tribe protect as its 15 players (under the old expansion draft rules).
Here are those old rules (for those interested): https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/05/blue-jays-expansion-draft.html

Detailed rules can be found here, but basically each team’s best prospects were not eligible for the draft. Still, about a quarter of the players chosen were minor leaguers. Also, players with no-trade clauses or ten-and-five rights had to be put on protected lists unless they waived those rights. And there would be no reason to protect players eligible for free agency.

2) was part of another post. Here is what was written:
From: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/05/rockies-release-tim-melville.html
Not long after Spring Training was shut down and baseball was put on an indefinite hiatus, it was reported that rosters would be locked. Teams aren’t even permitted to discuss contract extensions with their players at the moment, so it’s rather peculiar to see a player confirm a recent release. It’s frankly unclear at this point just what explains the circumstances.

The part I put in bold surprised me. While I knew rosters were frozen I was unaware teams could not discuss contract extensions with their own players. To be honest I was hoping Tribe mgmt was having chats with Lindor & others (Bieber/ maybe Clevinger). Now I guess they can't. While I can understand both sides can't commit with so much uncertainty we saw NFL have its free agency take place at the end of March 2020 when everyone wondered what was happening. It served as a great distraction & discussion point.

How does everyone else feel about teams being unable to discuss extensions with their players during this time??
 

Gson

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I noticed a couple of things over on MLBTR today.

1) is a mental exercise of possible MLB expansion. IF happening right now, who should the Tribe protect as its 15 players (under the old expansion draft rules).
Here are those old rules (for those interested): https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/05/blue-jays-expansion-draft.html

Detailed rules can be found here, but basically each team’s best prospects were not eligible for the draft. Still, about a quarter of the players chosen were minor leaguers. Also, players with no-trade clauses or ten-and-five rights had to be put on protected lists unless they waived those rights. And there would be no reason to protect players eligible for free agency.

2) was part of another post. Here is what was written:
From: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/05/rockies-release-tim-melville.html
Not long after Spring Training was shut down and baseball was put on an indefinite hiatus, it was reported that rosters would be locked. Teams aren’t even permitted to discuss contract extensions with their players at the moment, so it’s rather peculiar to see a player confirm a recent release. It’s frankly unclear at this point just what explains the circumstances.

The part I put in bold surprised me. While I knew rosters were frozen I was unaware teams could not discuss contract extensions with their own players. To be honest I was hoping Tribe mgmt was having chats with Lindor & others (Bieber/ maybe Clevinger). Now I guess they can't. While I can understand both sides can't commit with so much uncertainty we saw NFL have its free agency take place at the end of March 2020 when everyone wondered what was happening. It served as a great distraction & discussion point.

How does everyone else feel about teams being unable to discuss extensions with their players during this time??
The "fiscal restraint" mantra being the priority.. it's easy to see why both the players and owners would be inclined to put a moratorium on any form of "new" spending. The loss of fan interest in this is a cost borne as a result. The optics are pretty clear.. would you want to be the player that gets to tell the people via mass media that they're not going to sign for $ 28 MM/year when they want $ 30 MM/year? How about a deal with Tyler Naquin going to the DBax for ca$h? Does this qualify as exploiting the Indians poorer position by one of the wealthier clubs? Think the fans would be appreciative of an owner getting a couple million to tide him over for the next day or six? This and other news disseminated via radio/cell phone while their adoring fans are sitting in a drive thru line for food after their livelihoods have been cut off? Who's greedier? really?.

The long game here is all about the optics.. The players cannot be anything but philanthropic or they're scum.. The owners cannot be anything but empathetic or they're scum.. and there is no doubt, scum is a bad thing...

That said.. it's without a doubt that there are whispers between agents and general managers/team counsel defining what is going to be next. The landscape for contract discussions is changing and has changed.. While there is still little chance for the elite guys to see a significant change or reduction.. everyone else is "on the bubble"

Thoughts?..
 

Lee

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I mean i can still run a 100m in less than 13 seconds and I haven't competed in that in 15 years lol
I know this is a joke, but I am hoping I can beat 13 seconds at this point in my life, sadly I am not 100% positive I can, lol
 

kidduck

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Currently, the Tribe has only 1 long term contract paying $10M+ per season to a player extending beyond the
2021 season. It belongs to Carrasco and goes way down in 2022. So the Tribe is either ripe for being sold
or flexible enough to keep any young talent in the system.
 

CATS44

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At this point in time I'm far more concerned with the Dolans ability to survive the economic fallout from the virus than on future salary commitments. When this is all over, will they even be able to sustain a MLB franchise, let alone field a viable competitive team.

A small market franchise has three major revenue streams....media broadcast rights, attendance, and revenue sharing. Whether or not there is a season, two of those streams no longer exist for this year.

Like restaurants and bars, MLB is not immune to the economic impact of the pandemic. I have many friends and acquaintances in the bar and restaurant business. Some are very good at that and have made good profits. Some are not and have squeaked by. The latter will soon be gone. But even the best are in deep financial doo doo. Some of them wont survive for no fault of their own.

If they have to cut their seating in half, their revenue streams are cut in half. And if their labor costs rise in order to provide the requisite sanitation services, that adds to the problem. And exactly how many of their customers are gonna be shy for a very long time about joining the crowd?

The Indians have cut payroll two consecutive years, because attendance has not followed on the field success. They are now running on a shoestring budget. We can argue from now to kingdom come as to whether the Dolans are cheap or financially prudent, but nobody can argue that they have the same financial wherewithal as the vast majority of MLB franchises.

The Dolans are not billionaires, nor do they control a large corporation with the ability to subsidize a MLB franchise.

It is my speculation, with nothing to go on, other than some rumblings from folks I talk with in the Cleveland business community, that the Dolans are at least receptive to the idea of selling the team. But right now, who is willing to buy a MLB franchise, unless they can get it for pennies on the dollar.

Consider that this year is a loss, whether there is a season or not, and labor unrest is only another year away.

To me it appears that the Dolans are between the proverbial rock and hard place, and that isnt good for the Cleveland Indians.
 
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At this point in time I'm far more concerned with the Dolans ability to survive the economic fallout from the virus than on future salary commitments. When this is all over, will they even be able to sustain a MLB franchise, let alone field a viable competitive team.

A small market franchise has three major revenue streams....media broadcast rights, attendance, and revenue sharing. Whether or not there is a season, two of those streams no longer exist for this year.

Like restaurants and bars, MLB is not immune to the economic impact of the pandemic. I have many friends and acquaintances in the bar and restaurant business. Some are very good at that and have made good profits. Some are not and have squeaked by. The latter will soon be gone. But even the best are in deep financial doo doo. Some of them wont survive for no fault of their own.

If they have to cut their seating in half, their revenue streams are cut in half. And if their labor costs rise in order to provide the requisite sanitation services, that adds to the problem. And exactly how many of their customers are gonna be shy for a very long time about joining the crowd?

The Indians have cut payroll two consecutive years, because attendance has not followed on the field success. They are now running on a shoestring budget. We can argue from now to kingdom come as to whether the Dolans are cheap or financially prudent, but nobody can argue that they have the same financial wherewithal as the vast majority of MLB franchises.

The Dolans are not billionaires, nor do they control a large corporation with the ability to subsidize a MLB franchise.

It is my speculation, with nothing to go on, other than some rumblings from folks I talk with in the Cleveland business community, that the Dolans are at least receptive to the idea of selling the team. But right now, who is willing to buy a MLB franchise, unless they can get it for pennies on the dollar.

Consider that this year is a loss, whether there is a season or not, and labor unrest is only another year away.

To me it appears that the Dolans are between the proverbial rock and hard place, and that isnt good for the Cleveland Indians.
I'm very concerned as well. One list I checked listed Cleveland as the 52nd largest city in the country. Columbus is 14th with more than double the population. El Paso, Tucson, Albuquerque, Austin, Louisville, Mesa, Colorado Springs....all much larger than Cleveland. The population has really shifted south and west in a big way. I'm surprised we still have pro sports here. The cities immediately above and below Cleveland in population are Wichita and Bakersfield.

Based on the 2010 census and the 2018 population estimates only four cities in the top 63 lost population over the last eight years and Cleveland is one of them. The way things are going Cleveland may not be in the top 75 by the 2030 census.

I could see the Indians moving to Charlotte. It has an estimated population of 872,000 versus Cleveland's 384,000. More importantly, Charlotte, now the 16th largest city, had a growth rate of 19% over the last eight years while Cleveland is down 3%. It's 250 miles from the closest existing franchise (Atlanta), which is the same distance from Cleveland to Cincinnati so infringement won't be a problem.

Based on the demographic trends and the sparse attendance in recent years even with 90+ win teams I'm wondering how long the Cleveland Indians will continue to exist. We've already seen an NFL team leave due to financial strains. If ownership takes a financial bath this year it will only exacerbate the situation which could already be hanging by a threat for all we know.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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I'm very concerned as well. One list I checked listed Cleveland as the 52nd largest city in the country. Columbus is 14th with more than double the population. El Paso, Tucson, Albuquerque, Austin, Louisville, Mesa, Colorado Springs....all much larger than Cleveland. The population has really shifted south and west in a big way. I'm surprised we still have pro sports here. The cities immediately above and below Cleveland in population are Wichita and Bakersfield.

Based on the 2010 census and the 2018 population estimates only four cities in the top 63 lost population over the last eight years and Cleveland is one of them. The way things are going Cleveland may not be in the top 75 by the 2030 census.

I could see the Indians moving to Charlotte. It has an estimated population of 872,000 versus Cleveland's 384,000. More importantly, Charlotte, now the 16th largest city, had a growth rate of 19% over the last eight years while Cleveland is down 3%. It's 250 miles from the closest existing franchise (Atlanta).

Based on the demographic trends and the sparse attendance in recent years even with 90+ win teams I'm wondering how long the Cleveland Indians will continue to exist. We've already seen an NFL team leave due to financial strains.
I don't think measuring the population of Cleveland proper makes sense if you want the full picture. You have to use the metro area.


We're 34, which is slightly better.

Northeast Ohio is the 17th largest combined-statistical area.


This might help explain why our TV ratings consistently outrank our attendance numbers.

I agree that the population of Cleveland proper is a hurdle if we're focusing on our attendance numbers.
 
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BMAN

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I don't think measuring the population of Cleveland proper makes sense if you want the full picture. You have to use the metro area.


We're 34, which is slightly better.

Northeast Ohio is the 17th largest combined-statistical area.


This might help explain why our TV ratings consistently outrank our attendance numbers.

I agree that the population of Cleveland proper is a hurdle if we're focusing on our attendance numbers.
You beat me to it. We’ve gone over this before in here. From what I have read, it seems like the flight of Cleveland residents is finally plateauing. Who knows maybe we’ll even see a rise in residents. Downtown alone now has 20k and has a 30k goal by 2030. There have been two residents towers built in the last 2 years (with the Lumen coming online this summer). Towers are being planned in the West Bank of the flats and University Circle (those surrounding areas are being built up as well). Ohio City is also getting a shit ton of new housing (just look at Detroit and across from the West side market).

On the business side of things, Sherwin Williams is building a new HQ right on public square (rumored for be 40 stories) with them consolidating their office workers (this including their Vesper employees from Minnesota). Also gained another Fortune 500 in Cliffs with them acquiring AK Steel.

I’m ending it here because this is WAAAAYYYY off topic.

I’m going to try and bring back now by saying my fiancée revealed to me she was going to surprise me with season tickets this year too. Fucking covid man.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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You beat me to it. We’ve gone over this before in here. From what I have read, it seems like the flight of Cleveland residents is finally plateauing. Who knows maybe we’ll even see a rise in residents. Downtown alone now has 20k and has a 30k goal by 2030. There have been two residents towers built in the last 2 years (with the Lumen coming online this summer). Towers are being planned in the West Bank of the flats and University Circle (those surrounding areas are being built up as well). Ohio City is also getting a shit ton of new housing (just look at Detroit and across from the West side market).

On the business side of things, Sherwin Williams is building a new HQ right on public square (rumored for be 40 stories) with them consolidating their office workers (this including their Vesper employees from Minnesota). Also gained another Fortune 500 in Cliffs with them acquiring AK Steel.

I’m ending it here because this is WAAAAYYYY off topic.

I’m going to try and bring back now by saying my fiancée revealed to me she was going to surprise me with season tickets this year too. Fucking covid man.
For me, this was the first year I didn't renew my season tickets.

Pretty good/lucky timing I'd say.
 

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