The 2020 Cleveland Indians

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BMAN

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You beat me to it. We’ve gone over this before in here. From what I have read, it seems like the flight of Cleveland residents is finally plateauing. Who knows maybe we’ll even see a rise in residents. Downtown alone now has 20k and has a 30k goal by 2030. There have been two residents towers built in the last 2 years (with the Lumen coming online this summer). Towers are being planned in the West Bank of the flats and University Circle (those surrounding areas are being built up as well). Ohio City is also getting a shit ton of new housing (just look at Detroit and across from the West side market).

On the business side of things, Sherwin Williams is building a new HQ right on public square (rumored for be 40 stories) with them consolidating their office workers (this including their Vesper employees from Minnesota). Also gained another Fortune 500 in Cliffs with them acquiring AK Steel.

I’m ending it here because this is WAAAAYYYY off topic.

I’m going to try and bring back now by saying my fiancée revealed to me she was going to surprise me with season tickets this year too. Fucking covid man.
I think what I was trying to say in all of this don’t discount sort of rebuilding process for the actual city which in turn would probably help the team with attendance and business advertisements/parternships.
 
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sportscoach

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The problem with the metro is also the fact the rust belt of so many different large companies leaving. Cleveland draws in people from the surrounding counties even into Erie PA for their fan base, but with that area losing thousands of factory/good paying jobs, it caused people to move away and/or not be able to pay for tickets like they used to.

The economy isn't horrible, but growing up in Canton, I saw the 90s and after and its just not the same with the jobs leaving and being replaced by jobs that don't nearly make the same per hour.
 

6.19.2016

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You beat me to it. We’ve gone over this before in here. From what I have read, it seems like the flight of Cleveland residents is finally plateauing. Who knows maybe we’ll even see a rise in residents. Downtown alone now has 20k and has a 30k goal by 2030. There have been two residents towers built in the last 2 years (with the Lumen coming online this summer). Towers are being planned in the West Bank of the flats and University Circle (those surrounding areas are being built up as well). Ohio City is also getting a shit ton of new housing (just look at Detroit and across from the West side market).

On the business side of things, Sherwin Williams is building a new HQ right on public square (rumored for be 40 stories) with them consolidating their office workers (this including their Vesper employees from Minnesota). Also gained another Fortune 500 in Cliffs with them acquiring AK Steel.

I’m ending it here because this is WAAAAYYYY off topic.

I’m going to try and bring back now by saying my fiancée revealed to me she was going to surprise me with season tickets this year too. Fucking covid man.
I'm very concerned as well. One list I checked listed Cleveland as the 52nd largest city in the country. Columbus is 14th with more than double the population. El Paso, Tucson, Albuquerque, Austin, Louisville, Mesa, Colorado Springs....all much larger than Cleveland. The population has really shifted south and west in a big way. I'm surprised we still have pro sports here. The cities immediately above and below Cleveland in population are Wichita and Bakersfield.

Based on the 2010 census and the 2018 population estimates only four cities in the top 63 lost population over the last eight years and Cleveland is one of them. The way things are going Cleveland may not be in the top 75 by the 2030 census.

I could see the Indians moving to Charlotte. It has an estimated population of 872,000 versus Cleveland's 384,000. More importantly, Charlotte, now the 16th largest city, had a growth rate of 19% over the last eight years while Cleveland is down 3%. It's 250 miles from the closest existing franchise (Atlanta), which is the same distance from Cleveland to Cincinnati so infringement won't be a problem.

Based on the demographic trends and the sparse attendance in recent years even with 90+ win teams I'm wondering how long the Cleveland Indians will continue to exist. We've already seen an NFL team leave due to financial strains. If ownership takes a financial bath this year it will only exacerbate the situation which could already be hanging by a threat for all we know.
I don't think measuring the population of Cleveland proper makes sense if you want the full picture. You have to use the metro area.


We're 34, which is slightly better.

Northeast Ohio is the 17th largest combined-statistical area.


This might help explain why our TV ratings consistently outrank our attendance numbers.

I agree that the population of Cleveland proper is a hurdle if we're focusing on our attendance numbers.
For those who want to analyze the numbers, Census city estimates based on where people lived in July 2019 are coming out the next day or two, I believe; although year-by-year individual city estimates tend to be off quite a bit from the final numbers even if the county/state estimates tend to be about right.

Wham, re: the bolded - I don't think we want to imply that the Modell fiasco was in some way connected to the economic/population trends we're discussing.

The irony with the stadium-financing precedent that Shart set, is that he would often joke that revenue-sharing between owners, which is generally uncontroversial and basically renders moot these population/economics discussions for the NFL, was "30 Republicans voting socialist."

Regardless of how awful Art was, and regardless of one's political position, there's some ironic/dark humor there, in that he brought stadium finance "socialism" to the league.
 
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dkbldev

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For me, this was the first year I didn't renew my season tickets.

Pretty good/lucky timing I'd say.
This was going to be our last year. Had to renew early last year because of the All Star Game. We are going back and forth on whether to use money towards next year or take the refund and get Captains tickets.
I could easily sell our tickets for face or a small profit each game but not sure it's worth the hassle.
 

MadThinker88

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This was going to be our last year. Had to renew early last year because of the All Star Game. We are going back and forth on whether to use money towards next year or take the refund and get Captains tickets.
I could easily sell our tickets for face or a small profit each game but not sure it's worth the hassle.
The additional credits being offered toward 2021 helps to reduce the cost to remain with CLE. Ultimately the final choice is yours but if I faced the choice, I would want to see how the structure of the minor leagues will be BEFORE making a decision.

While Mahoning Valley was facing contraction, the lack of a MiLB season in 2020 might produce/force other changes. Does Lake County survive/ even remain affiliated with CLE is something assumed right now but it might change in the end when it all shakes out.

Binghamton & Erie were also facing contraction before this pandemic delay. I saw a report a few days ago that the Short-Season Brooklyn Cyclones was surviving but moving up to AA to replace Binghamton. I haven't seen any news about what might be replacing Erie on the AA level..
 

BMAN

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Just curious why are you guys choosing to not renew? Personal, not worth it, other reason? I’ve definitely wanted season tickets for a while, tribe is my favorite team in town.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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Just curious why are you guys choosing to not renew? Personal, not worth it, other reason? I’ve definitely wanted season tickets for a while, tribe is my favorite team in town.
When I lived downtown, it was an amazing luxury to just walk over to the ballpark. Easily the best value in town.

Now that I'm in the suburbs, it became more of a hassle. I'll still go to games. I just had to weigh if the season tickets were worth it, or if I should just buy singles and the little packs they offer during the year.
 

Derek

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Just curious why are you guys choosing to not renew? Personal, not worth it, other reason? I’ve definitely wanted season tickets for a while, tribe is my favorite team in town.
I have a quarter season package that I share with my dad and sister.

I think for future years, we're just going to set the money aside that we usually spend on the package, and just use that to buy seats when we want to go.

Trying to coordinate around the games they give you was a hassle for me.

It seemed like I was always busy or tired on the days we had tickets. I'll probably end up at more games now.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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I have a quarter season package that I share with my dad and sister.

I think for future years, we're just going to set the money aside that we usually spend on the package, and just use that to buy seats when we want to go.

Trying to coordinate around the games they give you was a hassle for me.

It seemed like I was always busy or tired on the days we had tickets. I'll probably end up at more games now.
To me, the flexibility with moving seats around was AMAZING.

I had a 20-game package, and would just move my seats around for basically free. You'd have to pay a ticket difference, which was typically 0 to 2 bucks per ticket for me. It was unrestricted, and was the reason I had season tickets for as long as I did.

Last year, I consolidated like 18 tickets to one game for a work outing.
 

Derek

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For me, I feel like I'll go to more games in the spur of the moment than if I'm trying to pick a day a month ahead of time.

I also have summers off, so my situation is a little different.
 

dkbldev

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Just curious why are you guys choosing to not renew? Personal, not worth it, other reason? I’ve definitely wanted season tickets for a while, tribe is my favorite team in town.
We have a quarter season for the weekend games, 2 tickets. We are expecting our second child next month. Our first is just turning 2. I am trying to split with some family because taking both kids, leaving them at home with a sitter or selling takes a bit of effort.
I love my seats and you cant beat the price. That's why we thought about doing Lake County for a few years until both are old enough to last longer than 3 innings.

Even have thrown around the idea of using the single game credits that I bought and additional 10% to pick up 2 more season tickets and split it with family or sell to friends/family at cost. Easier to do 4 seats instead of 2.
 

MadThinker88

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We have a quarter season for the weekend games, 2 tickets. We are expecting our second child next month. Our first is just turning 2. I am trying to split with some family because taking both kids, leaving them at home with a sitter or selling takes a bit of effort.
I love my seats and you cant beat the price. That's why we thought about doing Lake County for a few years until both are old enough to last longer than 3 innings.

Even have thrown around the idea of using the single game credits that I bought and additional 10% to pick up 2 more season tickets and split it with family or sell to friends/family at cost. Easier to do 4 seats instead of 2.
Everything you wrote is reasonable & understandable.
Let me ask you this: Would you still view Lake County as an option if it wasn't a Tribe affiliate??

Again, I have no knowledge of a change definitely happening to Lake County, but with the entire MiLB setup in flux assuming no change to LC would be risky...
 

dkbldev

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Everything you wrote is reasonable & understandable.
Let me ask you this: Would you still view Lake County as an option if it wasn't a Tribe affiliate??

Again, I have no knowledge of a change definitely happening to Lake County, but with the entire MiLB setup in flux assuming no change to LC would be risky...
That is a good question. We would still consider going even if they no longer were an Indians affiliate. A ball to me is more about rooting for the kids and hoping a few make it as opposed to what team they play for.

Disclaimer: if it was the Yankees affiliate, fuck that, I am not going.
 

Mott the Hoople

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That is a good question. We would still consider going even if they no longer were an Indians affiliate. A ball to me is more about rooting for the kids and hoping a few make it as opposed to what team they play for.

Disclaimer: if it was the Yankees affiliate, fuck that, I am not going.
Personally I don't attend Lake County games regularly. Maybe only a couple a year. But if they were not a tribe affiliate, that number would be reduced to zero. Unless, of course, they would be playing a tribe affiliate that night.
 

MadThinker88

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Personally I don't attend Lake County games regularly. Maybe only a couple a year. But if they were not a tribe affiliate, that number would be reduced to zero. Unless, of course, they would be playing a tribe affiliate that night.
Sounds like the way I view the Toledo MudHens & Dayton Dragons....
At some point I will take in a game at Toledo 5/3rd Field. I visited Dayton 5/3rd Field to see Lake County play years ago...
 

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