The 2023-2024 Off-Season Thread

[Bob_The_Cat]

are you a moderator?

....and youre telling me to ¨shut the fuck up¨ while i am defending a postion agasint someone here who is trying to claim that i was wrong about the cleveland caavliers prior to the mitchell trade and how i believe that your general manager is ass?

and i pointd out that kevin love...in a contract year.... never demanded a buyout until koby altman signed a worthles 36 year old guy eight months removes from an acl with over 150 playoff games that he would have to be fighting minutes for.

kevin love was so pissed he didnt even bother to spend his last night with his teammates in philly....left for ice cream and cigarrettes and never came back....four games after the deadline passed.


but i guess that this is just some coincedence to you?..

I’m not trying to claim anything. I literally quoted a post where you called the Cavs and Koby a world class organization from 3.5 weeks AFTER the Mitchell trade, and it specifically referenced the creation of a Big 4. I don’t know what you want me to say here. None of it was my words.

I just thought it was funny to see someone go from claiming it to be a world-class organization time-and-time again to saying everyone should be fired in a 7 month period. That’s it.

why are you arguing with me?......

you and everyone here should be pissed off as fuk for what is about to inevitably happen this summer. i posted that position piece from the guy on the realgm forum RE altmans failures.....you still believe some miracle is going to happen in the next 90 days?

after what it appears to Koby already fuking up by resigning a worthless cedi osman?

ffs, man....everyone here that understands basketball knows that its another 7mm down a cleveland drain...

Your article sites notorious garbage reporter Sam The Bullshit Whisperer. He likely has no idea what he’s even talking about and that has been proven over the years. I’d explain that to you, but there’s no point.

Osman isn’t a free agent, so he’s not being resigned. They can release him if they want, but it’s probably going to be more useful in a trade to match salary. If there’s someone the Cavs could reasonably sign that improves the team, he’d likely be cut. Stevens is non-guaranteed and can be cut at any time.

 

[godfather]

Where is the evidence that Mobley is more offensively talented than Bam? I don’t see it yet

He has more range and versatility. His TS was 59%, that's good. Bam's range is limited. Mobley hasn't develop yet consistent range, but shows some ability to shoot the basketball from beyond. Way more than Bam has ever shown, and ever will.

He just needs to develop it more consistently. There's a good chance it happens. And if this happens, and I am hopeful it can, it's going to open up his offensive game, significantly. So yeah, I do think he's more talented because his offensive skillset is more expanded than Bam's.

And he's a better defensive player (Bam is good too - but Mobley is better, especially at a young age compared to Bam).

His ability to protect the rim is greater than Bam's.

There's a real good chance he'll end up better, not a given though.

 

[godfather]

Some evidence that supports Mobley turning into a decent shooter, granted it's not a HUGE sample size.

Ignore his three point percentage overall, I know it wasn't awesome, and actually lower than his rookie year.

From 16-24 feet, he shot 47 percent. Which was up. The previous year, it was bad, and just 32%. The volume about the same. A little higher his rookie year. So he definitely improved.

And he was extremely efficient from the corner three, shooting 40 percent. This is not a huge sample size, and large volume of shots. But that is up compared to last year, which was just 22% (pretty poor). These are positive signs to me.

So he shows definite signs of having some range. Too early to say he's a good perimeter shooter, because his volume of shots are too low. Definitely has the ability hopefully to develop pretty good range overall.

 

[foucault87]

I also think Mobley has shown more versatility as a passer. Bam is awesome out of the DHO/high post but once he commits to a drive he almost always will shoot it.

Mobley has shown the passing hub stuff from high post as well. But his vision on the drive is clearly better. He has shown the kick out and the cut laydown. I think one thing both he and Allen do better than Bam is the interior passing and oop passing. Mobley's offensive awareness is very high. We need to take advantage of it

As it was, it took Bam what...6 years to get to where he is now? Give Mobley time. Rome was not built in a day, but if some of those on the board were in charge it would've been a series of ramshackle huts wiped out in history since it was not built fast enough

 

[godfather]

I also think Mobley has shown more versatility as a passer. Bam is awesome out of the DHO/high post but once he commits to a drive he almost always will shoot it.

Mobley has shown the passing hub stuff from high post as well. But his vision on the drive is clearly better. He has shown the kick out and the cut laydown. I think one thing both he and Allen do better than Bam is the interior passing and oop passing. Mobley's offensive awareness is very high. We need to take advantage of it

As it was, it took Bam what...6 years to get to where he is now? Give Mobley time. Rome was not built in a day, but if some of those on the board were in charge it would've been a series of ramshackle huts wiped out in history since it was not built fast enough

The traits are there. When people say Mobley didn't improve, they are just looking at the numbers not seeing it closely enough to see he did improve actually. But his role wasn't able to expand because of the addition of Mitchell.

He was definitely a better player this season. His shooting took a much bigger jump compared to his rookie year.

Mobley was a much better offensive player this season, than his rookie year. So given he's improved (which is good), I don't really understand all the angst over him in just two seasons.

When players don't improve, or the trend stays the same, you get worried or disappointed.

His offensive numbers were definitely much better. Basically every offensive metric, Mobley improved on. That's good!

Mobley actually improved every single part of his game. Defensively even was better.

So people need to slow down when they act disappointed, he's not an all nba player after 2 damn seasons. Goodness, that's just unrealistic.

 

[foucault87]

The traits are there. When people say Mobley didn't improve, they are just looking at the numbers not seeing it closely enough to see he did improve actually. But his role wasn't able to expand because of the addition of Mitchell.

He was definitely a better player this season. His shooting took a much bigger jump compared to his rookie year.

Mobley was a much better offensive player this season, than his rookie year. So given he's improved (which is good), I don't really understand all the angst over him in just two seasons.

When players don't improve, or the trend stays the same, you get worried or disappointed.

His offensive numbers were definitely much better. Basically every offensive metric, Mobley improved on. That's good!

Mobley actually improved every single part of his game. Defensively even was better.

So people need to slow down when they act disappointed, he's not an all nba player after 2 damn seasons. Goodness, that's just unrealistic.

Totally right here! If you watched the game tape it was night and day. The fact he was able to do more with fewer opportunities shows how he has improved. I dont need him to average 25/12 like he is Julius randle and doesn't know how to play with other ball dominant players. Hes on the right track and im excited to see where he ends up

 

[godfather]

Totally right here! If you watched the game tape it was night and day. The fact he was able to do more with fewer opportunities shows how he has improved. I dont need him to average 25/12 like he is Julius randle and doesn't know how to play with other ball dominant players. Hes on the right track and im excited to see where he ends up

Second half of the season, he was a monster. Amazing one playoff series, where he clearly just looked too hyped up, everyone acts like he's offensively challenged. Ridiculous.

 

[JJ_PR]

My dream offseason is to get Royce O'Neale & Jordan Clarkson. Koby would have to get creative but it's possible. Some luck could come in play if the Nets don't want to pay O'Neale. Also re-sign LeVert for a reasonable amount.

Trade Okoro & Osman for Clarkson. Can we trade our '24 pick swap for O'Neale? What about our '30 pick swap? We have a surplus of second round picks as well.

PG: Darius Garland / Ricky Rubio / Raul Neto
SG: Donovan Mitchell / Jordan Clarkson / Sam Merrill
SF: Royce O'Neale / Caris LeVert / Lamar Stevens
PF: Evan Mobley / Dean Wade / Luke Travers / Isaiah Mobley
C: Jarrett Allen / Khalifa Diop
Coach: J.B. Bickerstaff

 

[ice cream man]

Unfortunately this team is nowhere near actually contending and they will only contend if and when Mobley becomes a top 10 NBA player. So, I’m definitely not swapping Okoro for Jordan Clarkson at this time.

 

[inliner311]

My dream offseason is to get Royce O'Neale & Jordan Clarkson. Koby would have to get creative but it's possible. Some luck could come in play if the Nets don't want to pay O'Neale. Also re-sign LeVert for a reasonable amount.

Trade Okoro & Osman for Clarkson. Can we trade our '24 pick swap for O'Neale? What about our '30 pick swap? We have a surplus of second round picks as well.

PG: Darius Garland / Ricky Rubio / Raul Neto
SG: Donovan Mitchell / Jordan Clarkson / Sam Merrill
SF: Royce O'Neale / Caris LeVert / Lamar Stevens
PF: Evan Mobley / Dean Wade / Luke Travers / Isaiah Mobley
C: Jarrett Allen / Khalifa Diop
Coach: J.B. Bickerstaff

I watched a good amount of Utah games this season, I'm not sure Clarkson is that much better of a player than he was when he was here. I feel like Clarkson will just revert back to his old self under JBB. I think Clarkson needs structure from both his coach and PG to be a good player. I wouldn't give up assets for Clarkson especially because we don't if Rubio will bounce back. I also don't think Garland has the personality to keep Clarkson in check on the court and rein him in when needed.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

My dream offseason is to get Royce O'Neale & Jordan Clarkson. Koby would have to get creative but it's possible. Some luck could come in play if the Nets don't want to pay O'Neale. Also re-sign LeVert for a reasonable amount.

Trade Okoro & Osman for Clarkson. Can we trade our '24 pick swap for O'Neale? What about our '30 pick swap? We have a surplus of second round picks as well.

PG: Darius Garland / Ricky Rubio / Raul Neto
SG: Donovan Mitchell / Jordan Clarkson / Sam Merrill
SF: Royce O'Neale / Caris LeVert / Lamar Stevens
PF: Evan Mobley / Dean Wade / Luke Travers / Isaiah Mobley
C: Jarrett Allen / Khalifa Diop
Coach: J.B. Bickerstaff

Clarkson and LeVert on a bench together seems like pure chaos, and not in a good way. It’s one or the other, and I just trust LeVert more especially since he improved in his role in the 2nd half of the year.

That big rotation terrifies me though. If Wade’s out third best big next year we are totally screwed.

 

[Comeback kid]

Clarkson and LeVert on a bench together seems like pure chaos, and not in a good way. It’s one or the other, and I just trust LeVert more especially since he improved in his role in the 2nd half of the year.

That big rotation terrifies me though. If Wade’s out third best big next year we are totally screwed.

How would you know? It’s never been tried.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

How would you know? It’s never been tried.

What’s never been tried?

 

[B Mac]

Clarkson and LeVert on a bench together seems like pure chaos, and not in a good way. It’s one or the other, and I just trust LeVert more especially since he improved in his role in the 2nd half of the year.

That big rotation terrifies me though. If Wade’s out third best big next year we are totally screwed.

I’ll second that the listed dream off-season sounds pretty awful.

LeVert and Rubio already struggled to coexist off the bench. Adding in Clarkson would be must see tv in a bad bad way.

Royce is definitely near the top of the list for possible acquisitions, but completely agree that not adding a backup big would be disastrous.

Wade and Lamar belong battling it out for 11th-12th man. Anything more than that means we whiffed.

 

[Kouki]

The traits are there. When people say Mobley didn't improve, they are just looking at the numbers not seeing it closely enough to see he did improve actually. But his role wasn't able to expand because of the addition of Mitchell.

He was definitely a better player this season. His shooting took a much bigger jump compared to his rookie year.

Mobley was a much better offensive player this season, than his rookie year. So given he's improved (which is good), I don't really understand all the angst over him in just two seasons.

When players don't improve, or the trend stays the same, you get worried or disappointed.

His offensive numbers were definitely much better. Basically every offensive metric, Mobley improved on. That's good!

Mobley actually improved every single part of his game. Defensively even was better.

So people need to slow down when they act disappointed, he's not an all nba player after 2 damn seasons. Goodness, that's just unrealistic.

You have to try really hard to find stats that show "His shooting took a much bigger jump compared to his rookie year"....

Although, there does appear to be some sort of oddity with his shooting. He must have taken a lot of shots from exactly 15 feet. According to NBA.com stats he took 62 shots from 16-24 feet, but 66 shots from 15-19 feet.

Regardless, here are all the numbers (NBA.com). And yes these are obviously very low sample count. But I don't see how you can draw the conclusion that "his shooting took a much bigger jump". When you look at shooting from > 5 feet, > 10 feet, etc you get higher sample counts though.

(and when I am talking about "shooting" I mean that moreso in the literal sense, at LEAST > 5 feet, where the attempt moreso resembles a shot and not a layup of sorts)



His overall numbers looked better his sophomore season largely because he took (and made) a higher frequency of assisted shots < 5 feet