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Steve_424

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Last night's episodes weren't as good as the first two IMO. It did go through the shot, which included Harper questioning the decision to put Ehlo on Jordan.
 

Huber.

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Last night's episodes weren't as good as the first two IMO. It did go through the shot, which included Harper questioning the decision to put Ehlo on Jordan.
It's 10 hours long. It is going to become a chore to watch from time to time. If they had other programming on ESPN to air a lot probably wouldn't have made the cut.
 

Hurl Bruce

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Last night's episodes weren't as good as the first two IMO. It did go through the shot, which included Harper questioning the decision to put Ehlo on Jordan.
Poor Ehlo...he gets the brunt of the blame for getting scored over, but I just get so baffled by what Larry Nance was doing on that play. If he just stayed between Jordan and the basket, that shot is even more difficult. Instead, he ends up between Jordan and the half-court line and is useless on that play. Fuck!
 

Bob_The_Cat

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I’m not here to knock Jordan’s greatness, but the degree in which people slurp the guy and place him on a pedestal is unreal.

People can dog LeBron all they want, but if Jordan came up in the social media era I have a feeling people would have a massively different opinion of him.

Also, the whole baseball thing. Really? Are people really going to act like Jordan was going to hit the majors for anything other than a publicity stunt? He was what, 34 at the time? What’s next, starting QB for the Bears?
 

BMAN

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Got past episode 4 and I think this series is alright. Definitely not as great as everyone is saying. Maybe it’s just me, I’m not a MJ fan boy, nor the biggest basketball fan.
 

Derek

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Got past episode 4 and I think this series is alright. Definitely not as great as everyone is saying. Maybe it’s just me, I’m not a MJ fan boy, nor the biggest basketball fan.
The best way to describe it is as a trip down memory lane. It's neither groundbreaking nor journalistic, and nobody should have expected it to be given that MJ had final cut.
 

Lee

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Got past episode 4 and I think this series is alright. Definitely not as great as everyone is saying. Maybe it’s just me, I’m not a MJ fan boy, nor the biggest basketball fan.
Love basketball, I hate the MJ narrative though. If you look at the top players of all time, Jordan had Pippen, top 30 and Rodman, top 70. Lebron had no other top 75 players when he won with Cavs, but did have Wade. The 2007 team with Hughes that made the finals in one list I read is the worst team ever to make the finals. I think the narrative he went 6-0 in the finals doesn't hold as much water as they were favorites in all finals. In all 9 finals Lebron has been too, he was also the best player on the floor for either team and by a mile all 9 times, winning is a team sport. Also Jordan had the GOAT coach, he has won zero before he Phil got to Chicago and not even close in Washington.

The narrative is just annoying when it comes to Jordan.
 

ACisKING

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I find the narrative about Jordan far less annoying than the narrative around Kobe. Jordan at least has a case to be considered the greatest player. His peak seasons were otherworldly. His play consistently reached another level in the playoffs. He was an absolute beast on defense. And, along with Wilt, he was the most dynamic scorer the game has ever seen. The increasing (as a result of the documentary) putting down of LeBron by media, fans, and retired NBA players to raise Jordan on a pedestal is a bit much. Like why can’t they both be great? And really LeBron couldn’t have played in an era where he would be allowed to use his strength to hand check people? And in which teams would be forced to play him one on one? But I at least understand why Jordan is considered the GOAT.

With Kobe I don’t even get the case. Yes he is likely the closest thing we will ever see to Jordan in terms of style of play, skills, moves, same position, etc. But by every objective measure (efficiency, field goal percentage, MVPs, finals MVPs, championships) he wasn’t as good as Jordan. So at best he’s only the second best shooting guard of all time. He was the second best player on his team for over half his championships won. His clutch reputation is incredibly overblown. His selfishness cost his teams. For how many years was he even the consensus best player in the world? Between ‘99 and ‘07 that title fluctuated between Shaq and Duncan. Between ‘08 and ‘10, Kobe might have been considered the best, but LeBron was putting up insane stats. After that it was obviously LeBron’s league. How can any player be considered the greatest ever if he barely had a three year run where he was the best player in the league?
 

SuperSurge

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I didn't know just how big a narcissist he is/was. Maybe it's a trait of elite talent/success. But I love the passion for playing his best every single night. I feel this is a scarce trait of today's NBA.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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Love basketball, I hate the MJ narrative though. If you look at the top players of all time, Jordan had Pippen, top 30 and Rodman, top 70. Lebron had no other top 75 players when he won with Cavs, but did have Wade. The 2007 team with Hughes that made the finals in one list I read is the worst team ever to make the finals. I think the narrative he went 6-0 in the finals doesn't hold as much water as they were favorites in all finals. In all 9 finals Lebron has been too, he was also the best player on the floor for either team and by a mile all 9 times, winning is a team sport. Also Jordan had the GOAT coach, he has won zero before he Phil got to Chicago and not even close in Washington.

The narrative is just annoying when it comes to Jordan.
All good points. I think the issue is speculation v. accomplishment:

With Jordan, the argument is that perhaps he wouldn't have been as successful without that team around him. With LBJ, it's that perhaps he would have won a lot more championships with a better team around him. I personally believe both are correct, but you're still fighting the battle of what "might have been" battle over what actually happened. And that's tough. The MJ narrative is what it is because it was actually written. LBJ's requires some speculation.

I still think LBJ is the GOAT, though. The 2016 Finals were an individual performance that could not have been accomplished by anything less. The complete insanity of leading both teams in points, rebounds assists, blocks, and steals, and winning the series after being down 3-1, is untouchable.
 

6.19.2016

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Love basketball, I hate the MJ narrative though. If you look at the top players of all time, Jordan had Pippen, top 30 and Rodman, top 70. Lebron had no other top 75 players when he won with Cavs, but did have Wade. The 2007 team with Hughes that made the finals in one list I read is the worst team ever to make the finals.
Honestly, Kyrie's 2016 postseason was at least close to top-75-all-time caliber I think...
 

Bob_The_Cat

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Honestly, Kyrie's 2016 postseason was at least close to top-75-all-time caliber I think...
Maybe, but that was a single post season. Jordan played 10 seasons with a top 30 All-time player.

Imagine what LeBron would’ve accomplished in his career if he played with a player like Wade, KG, or Dirk from 06-07 to 16-17 and the primes of their careers matched up.

That’s what people fail to realize in this whole discussion. Had that happened, given how dominant LeBron was early in his career, they probably win a minimum of six championships if the team stayed together and continued adding complimentary pieces.

Again, not knocking Jordan,but it just gets on my nerves to see the talking heads and other people use this as a means to shit on LeBron for some reason.
 

6.19.2016

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Maybe, but that was a single post season. Jordan played 10 seasons with a top 30 All-time player.

Imagine what LeBron would’ve accomplished in his career if he played with a player like Wade, KG, or Dirk from 06-07 to 16-17 and the primes of their careers matched up.

That’s what people fail to realize in this whole discussion. Had that happened, given how dominant LeBron was early in his career, they probably win a minimum of six championships if the team stayed together and continued adding complimentary pieces.

Again, not knocking Jordan,but it just gets on my nerves to see the talking heads and other people use this as a means to shit on LeBron for some reason.
I agree on that; also the "LOL 3-6" arguments are silly because, even after intergenerational adjustments i.e. traning, nutrition, changing schemes of play, all of the Warriors' 4 finals teams were certainly better than anyone the Bulls faced and arguably the Bulls themselves.

Althoug I still think the '01 Lakers 15-1 run is better than the Dubs' 16-1; flukish OT loss with crazy Iverson game, vs. blowout loss against a great-offense-but-no-defense Cavs and several close call wins i.e. Finals game 3.
 
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