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The Mueller Investigation (Russiagate)

BMAN

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Because unlike the Jewish holocaust victims, or the Chinese forced into concentration camps, the immigrants at holding centers have voluntarily taken this burden unto themselves. They are showing up at the border with an understanding they will be held at one of these centers until they are processed and have an opportunity to go in front of an asylum judge.

The decision to freely cross the border knowing the consequence is a massive difference than being taken from your home or a prisoner, and ultimately be held to await your death.

Which again, doesn't absolve what is happening at the border, but the analogies are so insulting to actual victims who were taken against their will. Is the US going into Mexico, Guatemala, Venezuela and taking mothers, fathers, and children from their homes, and bringing them up to our supposed "concentration camps?"and forcing them into those living conditions?
It’s what the definition is though. And I have seen stories where American citizens have been detained for a few weeks due to a “mistake”.
 

billmac91

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What a crazy story...

Involves CEO of Overstock.com, Maria Butina, and allegations of the FBI corruptly hiding exculpatory information.

Warren Buffet even brought into story to corroborate some of it.

 

King Stannis

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What a crazy story...

Involves CEO of Overstock.com, Maria Butina, and allegations of the FBI corruptly hiding exculpatory information.

Warren Buffet even brought into story to corroborate some of it.

How does this materially effect the Russia probe?

It implies a number of things without direct starting X led to Y led to Z.
 

billmac91

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How does this materially effect the Russia probe?

It implies a number of things without direct starting X led to Y led to Z.
It loosely connects via exculpatory information being withheld by the FBI. It’s a growing trend. To your point, I don’t know what thread this story should’ve gone to, just that it’s an insane story that a billionaire CEO would come forth like this. Or that a billionaire CEO was being used as an informant for the FBI. It’s just extraordinary.

Barr and Durham are in the process of reviewing exculpatory evidence collected by the FBI on George Papadopoulos that was withheld in the FISA applications as well.

I’d say, it shows an FBI willing to paint the pictures they want, rather than putting the pieces of the puzzle together, as they should....by law.
 

-Akronite-

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Approximately 6 Million Jews died during the Holocaust, a majority through deaths at concentration camps.

Again, the comparison is 100% insane.

I understand some people have died, some via illnesses, others via secondary situations, but to act like the US is out aggressively pursuing these people, bringing them to the holding centers, with the intention of gassing them to death is absurd.

In fact it's the other way around. Immigrants are coming to the border, knowing the unfortunate circumstances they are about to endure, and yet it's still more appealing than whatever their situation is that they face in their homeland. It's heart-wrenching.

But to compare it to a concentration camp where the ultimate goal was to sentence an entire ethnic group of people to death is outrageous. And it drives center left people away, IMO.
This is a misunderstanding of the term "concentration camp." Not all camps are literal death camps where the goal is to gas people to death. And again, Nazis do not have a monopoly on the concept of concentration camps. The argument "it's not as bad as the Nazis" is completely irrelevant and there are plenty of historians who back the use of the term in this situation. Also, the conditions of the camps led to many deaths in Nazi Germany, notably Anne Frank, and we are seeing poor conditions lead to deaths in the US. Isn't that more sick than an argument over wording?

Are immigrants lining up to enter these camps? Many are seeking asylum and being denied at ports of entry without cause.
 

-Akronite-

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The issue is that they are purposely using the word concentration camp to make the imagery to the Holocaust, it really is offensive. Saying that this is not why they use the words concentration camp is like Trump saying go back to where you are from isn't racist, just if you the America leave.

I am the moderate Jewish vote, and no way I vote for Trump, but I do see the left turning their back on one the best supporting groups they have ever had in the American Jews, The Young Dems are playing horrible politics yet are the biggest voice in the party right now. The Dems should win in land slide every time, but without Bill or Obama winning the nomination, they are lost puppies. The republicans win because they play smarter, and just run a better race. Typically this is very unfortunate like in 2016.
The GOP plays dirtier, which I guess is smarter when there's no accountability.

Many comparisons have been made to the internment camps of the Japanese during WWII. Is that an offensive comparison? Is it offensive to have called those camps concentration camps?

I personally don't see how this is an attack on Jewish people. And while I am not Jewish, it's not a homogenous group by any means and I know Jews that would disagree with you. The point is that what is happening is wrong and needs to be stopped. Is that not the lesson from the Holocaust? I don't have much respect for anyone that is more outraged by "charged language" than inhumane conditions (not directing that at you, to be clear).

What's the threshold for calling something a concentration camp? When is it not offensive to use the term? What are we supposed to call these overcrowded camps where people are being held indefinitely under inhumane conditions while violating their human rights?
 

Cavatt

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"Calling them concentration camps is not very nice"

Not allowing someone to shower for a month is nice I guess. Separating a family with no due process is nice I guess. Letting people die who need immediate medical attention is pretty nice I guess.

Spare the outrage. Close the camps and we can decide what to call these very specific crimes against humanity later.

Also the idea that "they knew what was going to happen" is pretty spurious. Is that true of the people that have been here for decades? I mean originally they were going to only round up people who were rapists and criminals right, but that has not held. Now they are trying to deport people without any waiting period, which means that Americans are going to deported with no recourse.

This is a money grab by the for profit prison people. They can't get a shower a week for 775 dollars a day?
 

Lee

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The GOP plays dirtier, which I guess is smarter when there's no accountability.

Many comparisons have been made to the internment camps of the Japanese during WWII. Is that an offensive comparison? Is it offensive to have called those camps concentration camps?

I personally don't see how this is an attack on Jewish people. And while I am not Jewish, it's not a homogenous group by any means and I know Jews that would disagree with you. The point is that what is happening is wrong and needs to be stopped. Is that not the lesson from the Holocaust? I don't have much respect for anyone that is more outraged by "charged language" than inhumane conditions (not directing that at you, to be clear).

What's the threshold for calling something a concentration camp? When is it not offensive to use the term? What are we supposed to call these overcrowded camps where people are being held indefinitely under inhumane conditions while violating their human rights?
I wouldn't say its an attack, but its using very strong words to exaggerate a point. Somewhere along the way they forget many Americans had family members talking about their days and escaping from a real concentration camp thus don't use the word lightly.

The word is 100% being used for its imagery, but for sure if the holocaust is a 10, what is happening on the border is a 3 or so. Not to make light of it, but 6 million Mexicans are not about to be slaughtered in every horrible way imaginable and made to dig their own mass graves.

Threshold? I don't know 13 million died total between jews and non jews, lets atleast get close to a million before using a word as colorful and deliberate as concentration camps.
 
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Coyote850

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I'm not a Democrat, not a Republican. I'm an Independent. With that said, this ENTIRE fucking Government in Washington needs kicked the hell out. Its brutal to listen to their bullshit. Common sense is completely non existent. If it makes sense, they do the exact opposite.
 

-Akronite-

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I wouldn't say its an attack, but its using very strong words to exaggerate a point. Somewhere along the way they forget many Americans had family members talking about their days and escaping from a real concentration camp thus don't use the word lightly.

The word is 100% being used for its imagery, but for sure if the holocaust is a 10, what is happening on the border is a 3 or so. Not to make light of it, but 6 million Mexicans are not about to be slaughtered in every horrible way imaginable and made to dig their own mass graves.

Threshold? I don't know 13 million died total between jews and non jews, lets atleast get close to a million before using a word as colorful and deliberate as concentration camps.
REALLY? I think you'd have a hard time finding a historian that would say that it's not a concentration camp until a million fucking people had died. That's insane. By your own scale, a THREE out of TEN seems massive for modern day America. A 3/10 on the Nazi scale seems completely unacceptable and worthy of strong language IMO.

Yes, it's strong language and that language does draw a connection to Nazi Germany, but again, concentration camps are not monopolized by the Nazis and do not necessarily need to be death camps. What's the point of "never forget" if we don't try to stop it before the killing starts?



On a related note, there have been multiple accounts now of US citizens, children even, being detained and separated from their family for days simply for being brown- I mean for having parents that aren't American.
 

Phills14

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To the GOP members of the board, I'm curious to find out your take on this news.


Mueller testified this week that Russia made significant strides in influencing our elections in 2016 and 2018. They are still doing it and are planning to go after 2020 hard if not harder than 2016. Christopher Wray has repeatedly, including this week multiple times, said the same thing. The intelligence community has been saying it and even testified to Congress saying similar things. The fact that McConnell is blocking these bills is unconscionable to me. He says of the bill “Clearly this request is not a serious effort to make a law. Clearly something so partisan that it only received one single solitary Republican vote in the House is not going to travel through the Senate by unanimous consent,”

Ok. What is partisan about it? What does the GOP propose that isn't 1 sided partisan? We have a problem with protecting our elections, I think we all can agree with the Intelligence community on that. Why aren't we doing anything?

I'd like to hear some GOP voices on this. Your thoughts?
 

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