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The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread (includes spoilers)

King Stannis

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Well, you've got a point. Logically, the North's army should number less than a thousand, and Dorne should have at least 20,000 or so. But the showrunners apparently ignored most of the losses suffered by the North over the course of the show, so your explanation that nobody else was strong enough may be correct in terms of show-logic.
I think much of Dorne's army was sunk when Euron attacked and captured Yara? I put some time into research.

My understanding of the (relative) strength of the other constituent regions are (per the ASOIAF and GoT Wikis):

Dorne:
Military Strength: Books: 50,000. Show: 20,000

No engagements during the War of the Five Kings.

Heavy losses in a Naval engagement. Their expeditionary force was presumably obliterated. In the show they could raise the fewest number of troops, but are relatively independent because even a troop of Girl Scouts can defend mountain passes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Vale:
Military Strength: Books: 45,000+, Show: 20,000+ includes 1000s of armored mounted knights.

No significant engagements during the War of the Five Kings. Modest losses taking Moat Cailin. Negligible losses during the Battle of the Bastards.

The Vale didn't send a whole lot of troops North to fight the Night King. I read somewhere only 500? Nor would they. Their primary field army is composed of armored knights. They were not seen during the Dothraki cavalry charge during the battle agains the Night King. Some Vale ground troops, or Foot Knights, or just dismounted knights, fought under Lady Brienne's command.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Riverlands: Military Strength: Books: 45,000. Show: 20,000+

Moderate losses during the initial battles of Robb Stark's invasion. Moderate losses during the Red Wedding. No further engagements during the War of the Five Kings outside the Siege of Riverrun that resulted in no Tully losses, and only moderate losses by the Freys due to disease.

The Riverlands have had 4-5 years to recover from the Red Wedding and saw little fighting under the leadership of House Frey. There is no reason to assume they couldn't field 20,000 troops.

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The Stormlands: Military Strength: Books: 30,000. Show: 30,000+

Following the Battle of the Blackwater, the Stormlands saw little action apart from those that went North with Stannis. Afterwards, Stormlands lords may have been unenthusiastic allies of the Lannisters, but we see no evidence of their having taken part in any further major battles in the show.

They can probably raise 20,000+ troops.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Reach: Military Strength: Books: 50,000-70,000. Show: 50,000+

The Reach had mixed fortunes. Those who swore to Stannis suffered high casualties at Blackwater. The rest suffered little during the remainder of the War of Five Kings. While Tyrell forces suffered heavy losses during the Sack of Highgarden, it is unknown what other forces from the Reach remained loyal to House Tyrell or defected to the Tarly's or did nothing. Tarly and allied forces suffered devastating loses against Dany's forces following the Sack of Highgarden.

So one has to assume the Reach can still field 50%-60% of their Pre-War total. Which is still a formidable number.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Iron Islands: Military Strength: Books: 20,000. Show: 20,000 (at best)

The Iron Born have suffered heavy losses through out the course of the series. All lands taken during the War of the Five Kings were lost with heavy casualties. The civil war that followed led to more losses.

One can only assume that they can only field a fraction of the forces they once had. They are most certainly unable to field enough troops to withstand an invasion from the Six Kingdoms.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Westerlands:
Military Strength: Books: 50,000 at best. Show: 60,000+

Aside from the North, the Westerlands have suffered the most casualties in the show. The Lannisters lost half their army in one battle during the first season to Robb. The other 30,000 troops continued to be bled in battle against the Robb's army as it retreated into the Westerlands.

More troops were lost at Blackwater, and every season saw more and more losses including losses taking Highgarden and the rout at the hands of Dany's dragons and Dothraki.

The Lannister garrison at Casterly Rock and King's Landing were both annihilated. There is no reason to think they can raise even 5,000 troops at this point.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The North: Military Strength: Books: 45,000. Show: 20,000-30,000

The North suffered catastrophic losses at the Red Wedding (10,000+), and during the Battles of Winterfell (7000+?), the Battle of the Bastards (5,000+) and during the war against the Lannisters.

They can probably only field a few thousand troops for the next decade.
 

Rich

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I think much of Dorne's army was sunk when Euron attacked and captured Yara? I put some time into research.

My understanding of the (relative) strength of the other constituent regions are (per the ASOIAF and GoT Wikis):

Dorne:
Military Strength: Books: 50,000. Show: 20,000

No engagements during the War of the Five Kings.

Heavy losses in a Naval engagement. Their expeditionary force was presumably obliterated. In the show they could raise the fewest number of troops, but are relatively independent because even a troop of Girl Scouts can defend mountain passes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Vale:
Military Strength: Books: 45,000+, Show: 20,000+ includes 1000s of armored mounted knights.

No significant engagements during the War of the Five Kings. Modest losses taking Moat Cailin. Negligible losses during the Battle of the Bastards.

The Vale didn't send a whole lot of troops North to fight the Night King. I read somewhere only 500? Nor would they. Their primary field army is composed of armored knights. They were not seen during the Dothraki cavalry charge during the battle agains the Night King. Some Vale ground troops, or Foot Knights, or just dismounted knights, fought under Lady Brienne's command.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Riverlands: Military Strength: Books: 45,000. Show: 20,000+

Moderate losses during the initial battles of Robb Stark's invasion. Moderate losses during the Red Wedding. No further engagements during the War of the Five Kings outside the Siege of Riverrun that resulted in no Tully losses, and only moderate losses by the Freys due to disease.

The Riverlands have had 4-5 years to recover from the Red Wedding and saw little fighting under the leadership of House Frey. There is no reason to assume they couldn't field 20,000 troops.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Stormlands: Military Strength: Books: 30,000. Show: 30,000+

Following the Battle of the Blackwater, the Stormlands saw little action apart from those that went North with Stannis. Afterwards, Stormlands lords may have been unenthusiastic allies of the Lannisters, but we see no evidence of their having taken part in any further major battles in the show.

They can probably raise 20,000+ troops.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Reach: Military Strength: Books: 50,000-70,000. Show: 50,000+

The Reach had mixed fortunes. Those who swore to Stannis suffered high casualties at Blackwater. The rest suffered little during the remainder of the War of Five Kings. While Tyrell forces suffered heavy losses during the Sack of Highgarden, it is unknown what other forces from the Reach remained loyal to House Tyrell or defected to the Tarly's or did nothing. Tarly and allied forces suffered devastating loses against Dany's forces following the Sack of Highgarden.

So one has to assume the Reach can still field 50%-60% of their Pre-War total. Which is still a formidable number.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Iron Islands: Military Strength: Books: 20,000. Show: 20,000 (at best)

The Iron Born have suffered heavy losses through out the course of the series. All lands taken during the War of the Five Kings were lost with heavy casualties. The civil war that followed led to more losses.

One can only assume that they can only field a fraction of the forces they once had. They are most certainly unable to field enough troops to withstand an invasion from the Six Kingdoms.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Westerlands:
Military Strength: Books: 50,000 at best. Show: 60,000+

Aside from the North, the Westerlands have suffered the most casualties in the show. The Lannisters lost half their army in one battle during the first season to Robb. The other 30,000 troops continued to be bled in battle against the Robb's army as it retreated into the Westerlands.

More troops were lost at Blackwater, and every season saw more and more losses including losses taking Highgarden and the rout at the hands of Dany's dragons and Dothraki.

The Lannister garrison at Casterly Rock and King's Landing were both annihilated. There is no reason to think they can raise even 5,000 troops at this point.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The North: Military Strength: Books: 45,000. Show: 20,000-30,000

The North suffered catastrophic losses at the Red Wedding (10,000+), and during the Battles of Winterfell (7000+?), the Battle of the Bastards (5,000+) and during the war against the Lannisters.

They can probably only field a few thousand troops for the next decade.
Literally more research and thought than D&D gave to any of this, I promise you. Well done.
 

The Voice

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Shouldn't most of them have an army left?

I mean I know the way the show portrays them when someone loses a battle that's it. Army gone forever.

But the Vale and Riverlands should be quite strong. The Stormlands...I mean jesus they haven't been around since season 2 a good chunk of them just went home as opposed to following Stannis.

Not to mention I believe the North is the least populated of the Kingdoms? I think?

Btw I know Edmure Tully is a doofus but Sansa's YAS QUEEN moment of mocking him was pretty disrespectful. Like, he was in prison for a long ass time because her brother fucked up royally.
Gendry is in love with Arya, he’s not gonna oppose the Stark’s.
 

Rich

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Lol so we were talking about why Winter was nowhere to be seen until e6 and it literally just hit me.

They had to work in Bran's s4 vision of a Dragon's shadow flying over KL. That vision didn't have snow. That's the reason lolol. That's why episode 5 couldn't have snow.

Lol so they had it snowing at the end of s7 then realized, sometime after, "oh shit...we didn't work than Bran vision in yet and it's perfect sunny, summer day...."
 
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The Voice

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I think much of Dorne's army was sunk when Euron attacked and captured Yara? I put some time into research.

My understanding of the (relative) strength of the other constituent regions are (per the ASOIAF and GoT Wikis):

Dorne:
Military Strength: Books: 50,000. Show: 20,000

No engagements during the War of the Five Kings.

Heavy losses in a Naval engagement. Their expeditionary force was presumably obliterated. In the show they could raise the fewest number of troops, but are relatively independent because even a troop of Girl Scouts can defend mountain passes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Vale:
Military Strength: Books: 45,000+, Show: 20,000+ includes 1000s of armored mounted knights.

No significant engagements during the War of the Five Kings. Modest losses taking Moat Cailin. Negligible losses during the Battle of the Bastards.

The Vale didn't send a whole lot of troops North to fight the Night King. I read somewhere only 500? Nor would they. Their primary field army is composed of armored knights. They were not seen during the Dothraki cavalry charge during the battle agains the Night King. Some Vale ground troops, or Foot Knights, or just dismounted knights, fought under Lady Brienne's command.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Riverlands: Military Strength: Books: 45,000. Show: 20,000+

Moderate losses during the initial battles of Robb Stark's invasion. Moderate losses during the Red Wedding. No further engagements during the War of the Five Kings outside the Siege of Riverrun that resulted in no Tully losses, and only moderate losses by the Freys due to disease.

The Riverlands have had 4-5 years to recover from the Red Wedding and saw little fighting under the leadership of House Frey. There is no reason to assume they couldn't field 20,000 troops.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Stormlands: Military Strength: Books: 30,000. Show: 30,000+

Following the Battle of the Blackwater, the Stormlands saw little action apart from those that went North with Stannis. Afterwards, Stormlands lords may have been unenthusiastic allies of the Lannisters, but we see no evidence of their having taken part in any further major battles in the show.

They can probably raise 20,000+ troops.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Reach: Military Strength: Books: 50,000-70,000. Show: 50,000+

The Reach had mixed fortunes. Those who swore to Stannis suffered high casualties at Blackwater. The rest suffered little during the remainder of the War of Five Kings. While Tyrell forces suffered heavy losses during the Sack of Highgarden, it is unknown what other forces from the Reach remained loyal to House Tyrell or defected to the Tarly's or did nothing. Tarly and allied forces suffered devastating loses against Dany's forces following the Sack of Highgarden.

So one has to assume the Reach can still field 50%-60% of their Pre-War total. Which is still a formidable number.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Iron Islands: Military Strength: Books: 20,000. Show: 20,000 (at best)

The Iron Born have suffered heavy losses through out the course of the series. All lands taken during the War of the Five Kings were lost with heavy casualties. The civil war that followed led to more losses.

One can only assume that they can only field a fraction of the forces they once had. They are most certainly unable to field enough troops to withstand an invasion from the Six Kingdoms.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Westerlands:
Military Strength: Books: 50,000 at best. Show: 60,000+

Aside from the North, the Westerlands have suffered the most casualties in the show. The Lannisters lost half their army in one battle during the first season to Robb. The other 30,000 troops continued to be bled in battle against the Robb's army as it retreated into the Westerlands.

More troops were lost at Blackwater, and every season saw more and more losses including losses taking Highgarden and the rout at the hands of Dany's dragons and Dothraki.

The Lannister garrison at Casterly Rock and King's Landing were both annihilated. There is no reason to think they can raise even 5,000 troops at this point.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The North: Military Strength: Books: 45,000. Show: 20,000-30,000

The North suffered catastrophic losses at the Red Wedding (10,000+), and during the Battles of Winterfell (7000+?), the Battle of the Bastards (5,000+) and during the war against the Lannisters.

They can probably only field a few thousand troops for the next decade.
I don’t remember dorne ever sending any troops to dany, nor do I remember seeing any Dornish armor. Yara and Reek took their own ships and euron had to build them. Unless this is a strictly book with you’re talking about.
 

Jack Brickman

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Dorne doesn't actually have 50 thousand troops in the books if I recall correctly. Doran has a conversation where he mentions that number is false but that they allow people to think that it's real.
 

Stark

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Man, I was just thinking about all of the wasted potential of season eight again, and one thing really stuck out to me in how terrible D&D were as writers for this season. They had no source material outside of a basic outline that GRRM gave them of what presumably happens at the end, so they just plugged the holes with a ton of action and CGI.

There are only five times that immediately spring to my head where I was sitting there thinking, "hey, that's a good overall conversation / character developing moment" all season long, which were:

- Jon and Tyrion's discussion in the cell in the finale
- Jaime and Tyrion's last conversation
- Dany's speech to King's Landing in the finale
- The funeral pyre scene after the Battle at Winterfell
- The Knighting of Brienne and that whole overall scene around the fire before the battle

And two of those were just characters talking to a crowd and not really directly interacting with anybody else. D&D did such a terrible job with these actual character moments, and literally almost everytime we had a chance to see something really impactful, emotional, and directly important to the story in some fashion, we always got a cop-out cut to black or scene skip.

- Jaime arrives in Winterfell undercover, but the kid he tried to murder eight or so years ago knew exactly where he was going to be when he arrived and clearly was waiting for him - better cut to black and go straight to his trial and not show him get rounded up by Bran, Tyrion, Jon, Dany, etc.
- Jon & Bran telling Arya & Sansa about Jon's true patronage? Something massive to the story at that time? Better have Jon tell Bran to tell the two girls and cut to black so we can't see either of their reactions.
- Sansa asking Jon when he arrived back to Winterfell with Dany's forces if he bent the knee for love of the North or for his love of Daenerys. Better cut it before he even responds. Did he just flip Sansa the bird and walk out of the room? Who knows?
- Tyrion pulls up a chair before the Battle of Winterfell and listens to Bran's story, one that literally is the driving force behind Tyrion backing him as the new king in the finale "who has a better story than Bran the Broken?" - better cut that entire thing out so we have no clue what Bran actually told him from the Three Eyed Raven's perspective.
- Sansa decides to betray Jon's trust and tell Tyrion that Jon is a Targaryen. Better just leave it as "what if there's someone better" and then cut to Tyrion telling Varys about it. Nobody wanted to see Tyrion's reaction that the queen he has been backing for years isn't even the rightful heir by her definition. Lets go snipe Rhaegal out of the sky instead.
- Jon kills Daenerys and then she gets carried off by Drogon. Boom, cut to three weeks later. How did Jon not get killed by Grey Worm and the Unsullied/Dothraki that probably swarmed to the room after Drogon flew off? How did Tyrion manage to stay in a cell for weeks when Dany literally was probably going to execute him that night? Fuck off, figure it out for yourselves says D&D.

Those guys skipped over the most challenging parts of the dialogue to write because they suck at doing it for themselves without GRRM holding their hands. Those six things I just listed above should have been huge scenes this season that would've added to the emotional impact instead of just having action sequence after action sequence.

It's a shame how badly D&D wrapped this up just so they could fuck off and go ruin Star Wars next. So much wasted potential.
 

King Stannis

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I don’t remember dorne ever sending any troops to dany, nor do I remember seeing any Dornish armor. Yara and Reek took their own ships and euron had to build them. Unless this is a strictly book with you’re talking about.
Ah, partially correct. Thank you for making me look it up again.

It seems the idiot Sand Snakes and Co. were on their way to Dorne to pick up their army. The never made it.

All the figures I quoted derive from both the books and show tabulated separately.

Dorne doesn't actually have 50 thousand troops in the books if I recall correctly. Doran has a conversation where he mentions that number is false but that they allow people to think that it's real.
Correct. He implies they have fewer troops then the rest of the Kingdoms (but presumably more than the Stormlands).

However, their reputation as fierce fighters stem from the fact that they have some noted individuals who were masters at fighting and that they have had several notable defenses of their lands in the past.

The reputation for defense has benefitted greatly from the fact that one has to overcome mountain passes to enter Dorne.
 

Rich

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So apparently Lena Headey revealed on a panel that they did, in fact, film her having miscarriage at the end of s7 and then scrapped it.

So....take from that what you will. You already all know my feelings on it.
 

Rich

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So it went like this: Lena Headey was asked what her favorite scenes for Cersei were and one of the scenes she mentioned was the miscarriage scene that they cut out out of s7.









D&D will never show up to a con with GoT fans again their lives.
 

Man Called X

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Not angry at you Rich, just pissed at what D&D did.

Oh here's this really fucking awesome tidbit we decided to throw away.
 

Cavatt

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I have to say, I am glad it is over. The monkey is off my back and they made me totally not care about the show anymore. I guess I will read the book(s) if it comes out.
 

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