The Sexland Experiment

[Derek]

Zizic is a 3rd big at best as is without significant offseason improvement. The Cavs are without question going to be the worst defense in the league for the next couple seasons not just next season. Adding a defensive project big from the draft isn't going to produce results quickly.
What types of replacement vets the Cavs bring in after so many falls off the books next summer will determine if they can balance out the 2-way issue.
Garland is unlikely to play good defense at any point since he is a offensive only player, where Sexton may at the very least improve to average on that side of the ball.
Garland better be Steph lite since they didn't trade him like they wanted to after picking him, I hope for the Cavs sake he is.

Really digging your heels in on that "they want to trade Garland" take, huh?

 

[NMCav]

Here's the thing....

If he's such a slam-dunk pick, then the rest of the NBA should have known that as well, and so been willing to pony up major assets to trade up for him. If they weren't...then maybe he wasn't quite that much of a slam dunk.

He only worked out for 3 teams the Lakers (Traded their pick for Anthony Davis), the Knicks (Aside from Prozgingis when was the last time they hit on a lotto pick?) and the Cavaliers. So most teams only had the small sample size from his time at Vandy and nothing else.

 

[Cavatt]

Here's the thing....

If he's such a slam-dunk pick, then the rest of the NBA should have known that as well, and so been willing to pony up major assets to trade up for him. If they weren't...then maybe he wasn't quite that much of a slam dunk.

Only 2 teams got to see him before the draft. 50% of those teams drafted him. The other one traded the pick for Anthony Davis.

 

[Cavatt]

He only worked out for 3 teams the Lakers (Traded their pick for Anthony Davis), the Knicks (Aside from Prozgingis when was the last time they hit on a lotto pick?) and the Cavaliers. So most teams only had the small sample size from his time at Vandy and nothing else.

You beat me. I didn't realize the Knicks saw him.

I do wonder what the Cavs do at 3. I think they would take Barrett there as well because of Collin.

I'm dying to see Garland play.

 

[Stark]

Posted this around draft time, figured I'd throw it out there again:

Only NBA teams last season to start two guards that were 6'3" or shorter were;

The Portland Trailblazers (Lillard & McCollum)
The Memphis Grizzlies (Conley & Bradley)
The Cleveland Cavaliers (Sexton & Knight)

• Lillard is the second best PG in the NBA and McCollum is a top-5/6 SG. Still haven't won anything.
• Conley and Bradley are two top-15 defensive guards in the league. Memphis was ass.
• Sexton was a solid rookie and Knight sucks. Cavaliers were ass.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

I think it's also worth noting that besides Portland, literally every team in the playoffs last season's starting backcourt had at least one guy at 6'4":

Golden State: Klay Thompson (6'7")
Denver: Jamal Murray & Gary Harris (6'4")
Houston: James Harden (6'5")
Utah: Ricky Rubio (6'4")
OKC: Terrence Furgeson (6'7") -- Andre Roberson also would've been the starter if not injured (6'7")
San Antonio: Derrick White (6'4")
LA Clippers: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (6'6")

Milwaukee: Khris Middleton (6'7")
Toronto: Danny Green (6'6")
Philly: Ben Simmons (6'10") & JJ Redick (6'4")
Boston: Jaylen Brown (6'7")
Indiana: Victor Oladipo (6'4")
Brooklyn: D'Angelo Russell (6'5") & Caris LeVert (6'7")
Orlando: Evan Fournier (6'7")
Detroit: Luke Kennard (6'5")

Portland was the only team in the playoffs to start two guards that were 6'3" or shorter (both are listed at 6'3"). Sexton and Garland are both another inch shorter than those two guys.

Lillard currently has a case for being the second best point guard in the NBA behind Curry right now too, and it still hasn't mattered for them so far. I don't see Sexton reaching that kind of a status.

I'll be shocked if they coexist and it actually works.

Will be interesting to watch of course.

 

[Cavatt]

Posted this around draft time, figured I'd throw it out there again:

Only NBA teams last season to start two guards that were 6'3" or shorter were;

The Portland Trailblazers (Lillard & McCollum)
The Memphis Grizzlies (Conley & Bradley)
The Cleveland Cavaliers (Sexton & Knight)

• Lillard is the second best PG in the NBA and McCollum is a top-5/6 SG. Still haven't won anything.
• Conley and Bradley are two top-15 defensive guards in the league. Memphis was ass.
• Sexton was a solid rookie and Knight sucks. Cavaliers were ass.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

I think it's also worth noting that besides Portland, literally every team in the playoffs last season's starting backcourt had at least one guy at 6'4":

Golden State: Klay Thompson (6'7")
Denver: Jamal Murray & Gary Harris (6'4")
Houston: James Harden (6'5")
Utah: Ricky Rubio (6'4")
OKC: Terrence Furgeson (6'7") -- Andre Roberson also would've been the starter if not injured (6'7")
San Antonio: Derrick White (6'4")
LA Clippers: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (6'6")

Milwaukee: Khris Middleton (6'7")
Toronto: Danny Green (6'6")
Philly: Ben Simmons (6'10") & JJ Redick (6'4")
Boston: Jaylen Brown (6'7")
Indiana: Victor Oladipo (6'4")
Brooklyn: D'Angelo Russell (6'5") & Caris LeVert (6'7")
Orlando: Evan Fournier (6'7")
Detroit: Luke Kennard (6'5")

Portland was the only team in the playoffs to start two guards that were 6'3" or shorter (both are listed at 6'3"). Sexton and Garland are both another inch shorter than those two guys.

Lillard currently has a case for being the second best point guard in the NBA behind Curry right now too, and it still hasn't mattered for them so far. I don't see Sexton reaching that kind of a status.

I'll be shocked if they coexist and it actually works.

Will be interesting to watch of course.

Lillard ain't 6'3". You are saying Collin is shorter than Lillard??

IMO San Antonio, Denver, and Utah all had exactly the same situation, but their guys were worse shooters. Yeah maybe one guy has one inch on our guys. Defense issues are a problem with any young team, not just short guards.

This breakdown from Fear the Sword on short guards was the most thorough of anything I have seen, and was the reason for the thread.

Can a Collin Sexton-Darius Garland tandem work for the Cleveland Cavaliers?

A feasibility study for the pairing of two smaller guards in the modern NBA.

www.fearthesword.com

 

[Stark]

Lillard ain't 6'3". You are saying Collin is shorter than Lillard??

IMO San Antonio, Denver, and Utah all had exactly the same situation, but their guys were worse shooters. Yeah maybe one guy has one inch on our guys. Defense issues are a problem with any young team, not just short guards.

This breakdown from Fear the Sword on short guards was the most thorough of anything I have seen, and was the reason for the thread.

Can a Collin Sexton-Darius Garland tandem work for the Cleveland Cavaliers?

A feasibility study for the pairing of two smaller guards in the modern NBA.

www.fearthesword.com

Lillard is probably overlisted on height a bit, but he's got 2-3 inches on both Sexton and Garland in wingspan.

I'm not writing off Sexton/Garland before I actually see it, I'm just not holding my breath on it working given past histories with similar backcourts. Sexton and Garland don't project to be great defenders next season, while those guys on the Spurs, Grizzlies, and Nuggets were either in a great defensive system (Spurs) or were really good to great individual defenders (Conley and Bradley).

Should be interesting. If Beilein can scheme some way for the wings and bigs to really cover those two, it could work with the way they can score the ball.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Should be interesting. If Beilein can scheme some way for the wings and bigs to really cover those two, it could work with the way they can score the ball.

Long-term, it doesn't make sense to me to have that much of your salary cap (assuming they blow up offensively) tied up in a backcourt that is subpar defensively.

 

[Cavatt]

Long-term, it doesn't make sense to me to have that much of your salary cap (assuming they blow up offensively) tied up in a backcourt that is subpar defensively.

It's sobering to think that the best case scenario may be them both turning into studs, so one can be traded for a better fitting piece.

Still for me, I have no illusion that the Cavs will be contending in the next few years. It's happened only a small handful of years of out 50. I'd say 5 or 6 years with Lebron and maybe 2 with The Price era guys.

I'm more interested in a fun team that plays hard than anything. Once we have a superstar talent and a solid system and team around him/them, I will have move to "championship or bust" mode.

Right now the very best we can hope for is fun games.

 

[Sebastian]

Here's the thing....

If he's such a slam-dunk pick, then the rest of the NBA should have known that as well, and so been willing to pony up major assets to trade up for him. If they weren't...then maybe he wasn't quite that much of a slam dunk.

I think it is more complicated than that.

So Zion is consensus #1.

Ja is consensus Top 3, but even then, there is doubt there in the last couple weeks after the combine and private workouts. But, if you're
Memphis you don't want to rock the boat. From what he hear, Ja/Garland were switched on many boards.

The Knicks, after losing the AD sweepstakes, and after years of ineptitude had to take a consensus Top 3 pick, even though a number of questions were raised, and are being raised about his work ethic. Privately, I think he will be bust.

The Hawks don't need a PG.

I think the other major issue is that this draft was very top heavy and the top five teams were really reluctant to part with their only pick. New Orleans had flexibility and used it.

I think Garland would have been a Top 2 pick in 2018.

 

[Cavatt]

I think it is more complicated than that.

So Zion is consensus #1.

Ja is consensus Top 3, but even then, there is doubt there in the last couple weeks after the combine and private workouts. But, if you're
Memphis you don't want to rock the boat. From what he hear, Ja/Garland were switched on many boards.

The Knicks, after losing the AD sweepstakes, and after years of ineptitude had to take a consensus Top 3 pick, even though a number of questions were raised, and are being raised about his work ethic. Privately, I think he will be bust.

The Hawks don't need a PG.

I think the other major issue is that this draft was very top heavy and the top five teams were really reluctant to part with their only pick. New Orleans had flexibility and used it.

I think Garland would have been a Top 2 pick in 2018.

You can add that when pick 4 is up for grabs, 5 loses a lot of leverage. We could have gotten our pick back from the Hawks and more if LA doesn't jump us.

 

[Sebastian]

You can add that when pick 4 is up for grabs, 5 loses a lot of leverage. We could have gotten our pick back from the Hawks and more if LA doesn't jump us.

Fucking Lakers. They were dead to rights with LeBron possibly looking to leave after another shit season. As we saw no one wanted to join him via FA. They were proper fucked.

And then the lottery saved LA's ass.

So convenient for the league and for LA's knob polishers.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Here's the thing....

If he's such a slam-dunk pick, then the rest of the NBA should have known that as well, and so been willing to pony up major assets to trade up for him. If they weren't...then maybe he wasn't quite that much of a slam dunk.

I mean, he was pretty much a consensus top 5 pick. Minnesota wanted him bad. He was going to be a Laker if they didnt trade the pick. He got some looks from Memphis and the Knicks too.

The fact of the matter is, the Cavs were enamored with Garland and were picking him the entire time. I think they smoke-screened a little bit because they wanted Atlanta to go up to #4 and take Hunter. They wanted the ability to select Garland at 5. 7 I feel pretty good about the fact that they were zeroed in in Garland as their guy with Hunter as the back-up option in the days leading up to the draft.

 

[Ozone]

Really digging your heels in on that "they want to trade Garland" take, huh?

yep I've been telling people the stock market is going to crash this year for the last 90 days too
I guess you are just going to have to wait and see. Maybe after getting him in house they realized they got a absolute steal at 5 if that were possible , but the truth is his value was not what they thought it was and won't be until he proves it at the next level.
There is very little chance him and Sexton can play together , but maybe in the Michigan mans offense they can co exist

 

[Derek]

yep I've been telling people the stock market is going to crash this year for the last 90 days too
I guess you are just going to have to wait and see. Maybe after getting him in house they realized they got a absolute steal at 5 if that were possible , but the truth is his value was not what they thought it was and won't be until he proves it at the next level.
There is very little chance him and Sexton can play together , but maybe in the Michigan mans offense they can co exist

You say this word, "truth", but I do not think it means what you think it means.