Thoughts on trading Jose Ramirez

[Tondo]

This is only my opinion but, I really doubt any of our star players (Jose and Shane) are interested in extending their contracts with the tribe. What is the incentive to do so rather than go for it on the open market?

Value goes down the toilet quickly, especially for pitchers if they sustain a serious injury. Bieber got a modest mid 6 figure signing bonus and that has been his annual paycheck too. His career earnings are what? 2M at best. If he's offered 50+ guaranteed for an extra year of control or team option, would be hard to say no to.

 

[CDAV45]

Extending Ramirez would be good, but I'm not so sure that doing so with Civale would be. I think he could get passed by in short order with the quality arms in the upper levels. When you start to think about arms like Espino, Hankins, Vargas, Hentges, Mejia, Cantillo, Burns, and Wolf all being ready within 2 yrs then the quality of depth will likely create some moving pieces.

There's a surge of talent on its way, and it isn't just pitching.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Steering off topic, but Bieber will be extended. That is as close as a 100% it’s happening as you can get too.

You can feel anyway you want, but they’ll give him the modern day version of the Kluber deal (buy out arb years for higher salary guarantees and tack on an extra 1-3 years of team control).

You can say the Indians are cheap when their guys get to actual free agency, but they are far from it when they offer guys pre-arb extensions. They offered a historic pre-arb extension to Lindor and he turned it down.

 

[CDAV45]

Steering off topic, but Bieber will be extended. That is as close as a 100% it’s happening as you can get too.

You can feel anyway you want, but they’ll give him the modern day version of the Kluber deal (buy out arb years for higher salary guarantees and tack on an extra 1-3 years of team control).

You can say the Indians are cheap when their guys get to actual free agency, but they are far from it when they offer guys pre-arb extensions. They offered a historic pre-arb extension to Lindor and he turned it down.

I wouldn't want them to sign a Lindor contract if they had the money. I'd rather see them spread it out a bit to a few players.

 

[Criznit]

Value goes down the toilet quickly, especially for pitchers if they sustain a serious injury. Bieber got a modest mid 6 figure signing bonus and that has been his annual paycheck too. His career earnings are what? 2M at best. If he's offered 50+ guaranteed for an extra year of control or team option, would be hard to say no to.

JRam signed his extension because it provided him security, and I guess that is the angle the tribe will pursue as it negotiates extensions with their current crop. But I believe that Bieber wil bet on himself, make some nice coinage through arbitration (assuming the rules don't change too much) and then sign a big fat deal with the team of his choice..

Seeing the contracts Bauer and Lindor just signed, has to come into mind when the tribe says "Hi Shane, got something we want to run by ya.."

edit. BImbo says otherwise and his ear is in tune with the team, so I am probably wrong.

 

[yrm0019]

I view Bieber as the real litmus test for this organization's payroll. Bieber is going to come close to setting a record for a 1st year arb player, assuming he has a decent season. That's easily $10M+. Will the org be willing to pay both Bieber and JRam over $10M in 2022? I hope so. An extension for Bieber would just be a cherry on top.

 

[hockeyjohn]

Our pitchers are young and are locked up until like 2025, Bieber becomes UFA.

And what makes you think some minority multi-millionaire is going to come in and shell out more cash than the actual owner?

The attendance for this season is what it is. It's going to be no different than the 9k faithful. If spending a record amount on Edwin didn't put butt's in the seats, along with the World Series roster we had, nothing will. It'll literally take the Browns being gone and the Cavs being garbage for Tribe fans to come along. Mid 90's Tribe was the absolute perfect storm for Cleveland fans.

If the Indians decide to trade Ramirez and rebuild, it will take them a year or two or more to be in contention again. By then Bieber will be on the trading block with two years or less with the others nearing their trade time. Will our current minor leaguers be able to fill the void to the same standards? As I said, there is no guarantee that we will still have strong pitching.

The Indians spent more on salaries when Sherman was the minority owner. The pandemic has magnified the payroll problems big time. Normal times returning with a minority owner should allow for more spent on the payroll.

 

[CDAV45]

If the Indians decide to trade Ramirez and rebuild, it will take them a year or two or more to be in contention again. By then Bieber will be on the trading block with two years or less with the others nearing their trade time. Will our current minor leaguers be able to fill the void to the same standards? As I said, there is no guarantee that we will still have strong pitching.

The Indians spent more on salaries when Sherman was the minority owner. The pandemic has magnified the payroll problems big time. Normal times returning with a minority owner should allow for more spent on the payroll.

I don't believe this John, especially when you think of the possible return. I'm not advocating trading Ramirez or extending him. What I am advocating is not waiting until his value has diminished like Lindor's did. Honestly, I'd be perfectly fine with them extending all of Ramirez, Bieber, E Rosario, and even Hernandez, but doing so would make it hard for guys like Jones, Miller, Freeman, and Arias to break through.

I need to know what the return would be before I passed judgement on the concept of trading Ramirez.

Strong pitching should not be a concern for any of us. I think that this organization has put together a playoff caliber rotation(again) with a plethora of impressive arms getting closer to ready than many realize.

 

[hockeyjohn]

I don't believe this John, especially when you think of the possible return. I'm not advocating trading Ramirez or extending him. What I am advocating is not waiting until his value has diminished like Lindor's did. Honestly, I'd be perfectly fine with them extending all of Ramirez, Bieber, E Rosario, and even Hernandez, but doing so would make it hard for guys like Jones, Miller, Freeman, and Arias to break through.

I need to know what the return would be before I passed judgement on the concept of trading Ramirez.

Strong pitching should not be a concern for any of us. I think that this organization has put together a playoff caliber rotation(again) with a plethora of impressive arms getting closer to ready than many realize.

I need to know the return, as well, but it would take an overpay now that most teams, if any, would be willing to spend. I, personally, don't see a team giving up enough controllable MLB or MLB ready talent to make us a contender until 2023 at the earliest. By then Bieber will be on the trade block unless we are able to extend him.

I would like to think that we will continue to churn out pitcher after pitcher, but there are no guarantees. Look at the Atlanta Braves. How many of their highly rated pitching prospects have bombed and disappointed. I just have a problem trading star players when they reach three years of control.

 

[DCTribefan]

Just say no.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

After what we did with Jose, Kluber, Cookie and the entire last generation, I truly don't understand how someone could say they don't think the Indians will extend anyone ever again.

It has been our MO to extend our young talent, betting on them early. If there's any team to bet on extending players, it's us

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

I got a funny feeling that we may never sign anyone to an extension again.

They will likely always try to extend the guys early if possible because you are giving them guarantees in return for less money at a time where they haven't earned much money yet. Both sides win. Once they hit that last year or so before free agency the availability of arb dollars and the reduced risk removes incentive to give a bargain. They got one from Carrasco mostly because his severe health scares made him hyper concerned about never seeing real money in the next deal.

Also, history tells us that many of those mega deals are very bad by the end of the contract. Cincinnati reached to extend Votto for big time money and he has become a marginal player with age.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

They will likely always try to extend the guys early if possible because you are giving them guarantees in return for less money at a time where they haven't earned much money yet. Both sides win. Once they hit that last year or so before free agency the availability of arb dollars and the reduced risk removes incentive to give a bargain. They got one from Carrasco mostly because his severe health scares made him hyper concerned about never seeing real money in the next deal.

Also, history tells us that many of those mega deals are very bad by the end of the contract. Cincinnati reached to extend Votto for big time money and he has become a marginal player with age.

Joe Mauer wrecked the Twins for a while too

 

[petes999]

After what we did with Jose, Kluber, Cookie and the entire last generation, I truly don't understand how someone could say they don't think the Indians will extend anyone ever again.

It has been our MO to extend our young talent, betting on them early. If there's any team to bet on extending players, it's us

Maybe why people are skeptical is that Indians use to go over $100 million to win. Now, we cut back to $58 million due to the financial strain that will take "many" years to make up for the losses. Can't sign too many to $10 million plus.

Plus, I get Lindor turning down $. Bauer wanting FA. Yet, never heard any serious rumors on extending Clevinger. Could be injury concern or was towards end of Lindor/Kluber/orig Cookie extensions (time to blow it up)?

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

Joe Mauer wrecked the Twins for a while too

The current baseball system is actually pretty good for budget conscious teams to have a competitive chance. The team gets to decide when to start that 7 year clock ticking and they can often get a bunch of prime years at a cheap price before free agency intervenes. If you can draft and develop well and flip the stars for future stars, you can stay in the hunt.