Thoughts on trading Jose Ramirez

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Gson

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Their big chip is the next 2 seasons aren't fully guaranteed and are team options. What is being kicked around is making those 2 years fully guaranteed and a higher figure while adding 2 or 3 years.
@ $ 9, $ 11, & $ 13 MM, respectively.. is an $ 11 A.A.V... raising the time to as many as six years... the overall A.A.V. to above or well above $ 20 including a substantial signing bonus (to allay the concerns of the CBA risk).. that could do it..

..but if it doesn't.. then pumping the breaks makes little sense..

Keeping the Indians' options open is their best course ..and that's what's been stated.. anyone can, and probably should, agree with it..
 

Lee

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After what we did with Jose, Kluber, Cookie and the entire last generation, I truly don't understand how someone could say they don't think the Indians will extend anyone ever again.

It has been our MO to extend our young talent, betting on them early. If there's any team to bet on extending players, it's us

They are really betting on the scouting and predicting that our young stars will continue to grow or atleast with someone like Bieber, continue to stay elite. Not sure you grow much from Cy Young at 25, you kind of reached the top at a very young age.
 

MattyFos.

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This front office has a proven track record of extending and moving players at ideal times. I'll just trust the process and I'm sure they'll find a way to maximize his value, contract and eventual return when those times come.
 

CDAV45

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Should clarify.

Was, not “is”. Indians typically don’t negotiate into the regular season, haven’t heard a peep on if discussions are still taking place.
Hopefully something gets done to lock Jose up for awhile. I'd like to see Eddie extended as well, but don't know if that's possible. You know he's the type of person that would love to be in Cleveland for a bit and the type of person they like. After that, all they'll need is a 1B with a big bat and they'll be in the playoffs another 5 straight years or more.
 

CDAV45

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Unless a minority, or majority owner is found, I don't see anyone getting extended anytime soon.
I'd have to see the guzentas squeezed, but one would think that between the low payroll, profit sharing, and the shitty TV deal that here has to be some room to work even without a minority owner. That's nothing but a best guess on my part.
 

Obscured By Clouds

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I'd have to see the guzentas squeezed, but one would think that between the low payroll, profit sharing, and the shitty TV deal that here has to be some room to work even without a minority owner. That's nothing but a best guess on my part.

Forbes estimates their operating income from last year at -$20 million. Will be interesting how they fair this year with all of the changes to team salary in the off season.
 

CDAV45

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Forbes estimates their operating income from last year at -$20 million. Will be interesting how they fair this year with all of the changes to team salary in the off season.
Yeah, even Forbes has to estimate because they don't have the actual numbers. I'm hopeful, but I'm also a realist. I don't have the numbers. I don't know how the season is going to go. I don't know if offers have been made for Ramirez. I just don't know. The only thing I do know is that this organization has very limited finances, I would love to see Ramirez extended, and I don't want to watch any player walk in FA that would have otherwise brought a significant amount of talent in. This organization does a pretty good job of not allowing that to happen, but it does occasionally and it's usually due to circumstances outside of their control(ie, injury).
 

Urban

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I'd have to see the guzentas squeezed, but one would think that between the low payroll, profit sharing, and the shitty TV deal that here has to be some room to work even without a minority owner. That's nothing but a best guess on my part.

Also worth including that the Indians are negotiating from a "place of power". Just like with their pre-arb extensions, they have Jose locked up for 3 seasons at a bargain price.

A hypothetical extension could be something like this. Turn 2 years $26m in options to 5 yrs $100m

2022- Age 29-Currently $12m team option. Make $16m fully guaranteed
2023- Age 30- Currently $14m team option. Make $18m fully guaranteed
2024- Age 31- $20m guaranteed
2025- Age 32- $22m guaranteed
2026- Age 33- $24m guaranteed
2027- Age 34- $26m guaranteed with $5m buyout
 

sportscoach

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Also worth including that the Indians are negotiating from a "place of power". Just like with their pre-arb extensions, they have Jose locked up for 3 seasons at a bargain price.

A hypothetical extension could be something like this. Turn 2 years $26m in options to 5 yrs $100m

2022- Age 29-Currently $12m team option. Make $16m fully guaranteed
2023- Age 30- Currently $14m team option. Make $18m fully guaranteed
2024- Age 31- $20m guaranteed
2025- Age 32- $22m guaranteed
2026- Age 33- $24m guaranteed
2027- Age 34- $26m guaranteed with $5m buyout

Problem is, if he hit free agency now, he could get a 5 year+ 115/130+ pretty easily.

Is it possible we switch it to a front loaded deal? Do the 26 in 22, 24 in 23 etc... I think honestly having it front loaded would be better for the team at the end of the day.
 

Derek

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Problem is, if he hit free agency now, he could get a 5 year+ 115/130+ pretty easily.

Is it possible we switch it to a front loaded deal? Do the 26 in 22, 24 in 23 etc... I think honestly having it front loaded would be better for the team at the end of the day.
I'm not seeing the problem. He literally can't hit free agency now, that's what puts the team in a position of power.

The only way for him to increase his earnings in 2022 and 2023 is via an extension.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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Let's say on the open market in 2023, Jose and his agent think they can get a five-year deal at 27M AAV. So, 5/135.

The negotiation leading up to this season would have to account for the three years of team control at a total of 35.4 million.

So, the starting point is a best-case scenario (no injuries, no drop-off in production, no major detriments to the market) of 8/170

If the Indians offered an extension that was less than five years, you have to project the guesswork of what Jose could get in those extra years on the open market, then take into account the value of having the money locked in now, as opposed to risking it against the described above scenarios.

I'd say that trying to get an extra two seasons out of Jose, which still allow him to reach the free agent market at age 32, might be beneficial to both sides. We add some money over the next three years, Jose loses some money in those first two years of the extension, but still thinks he can get a five-year deal when he hits free agency.

If you bring him in for two more years at 18M per, and bumped his annual salaries from 9/12/14 to 14/16/18, that's giving him an extra 13M, only giving up 5M off his top-end projection.. that might be something that both sides could eventually wind up close to.
 
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