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Top 20 NBA players 2017-2018

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Irving is underrated for the playoffs and guys like Griffin and even Chris Paul overrated IMO. The ability to score against defenses with playoff level talent, intensity, and coaching is the hardest skill in the NBA to have.
 
I like this reasoning, and I'll go one further and add the caveat that it matters how easy it is to build around you. With that in mind...

1. LeBron
2. Kawhi
3. KD
4. Harden
5. Russell
6. Giannis
7. Curry
8. AD
9. Porzingis
10. Chris Paul
11. Paul George
12. Jimmy Butler
13. John Wall
14. Joel Embiid
15. DeMarcus Cousins
16. Nikola Jokic
17. Kyrie Irving
18. Draymond Green
19. Blake Griffin
20. Karl-Anthony Towns


The first six are probably the easiest guys to build around in the league. LeBron, KD and Kawhi are all guys that can defend multiple positions at high levels, create their own shots, and create for others. Harden, Russ and Giannis can do two of those three things.

Once you get past those six, it gets a little dicey. Steph can't defend multiple positions at a high level, but he can control an offense with the best of them. AD and Porzingis may not have the shot creation chops of Steph, but they both have defensive ability he doesn't.

CP3 can't defend multiple positions, but he can get his own shot, create for others and defend his position. That lack of positional versatility, however, is what puts him behind the others. PG and Jimmy Butler have the ability to score, and they can defend multiple positions, but they aren't guys that can control the game the way Paul can.

Wall has focus issues on the defensive end, but he's a point guard maestro.

Then you get the run of bigs. Embiid, Cousins, Jokic... take your pick. I like Embiid just a tad more than the other two because of his defensive ability, and Cousins gets the nod on Jokic because of his scoring prowess.

Kyrie is a tough one to peg, still. He's great at getting his own, but he's not the creator for others that those in front of him are. He's also a little tougher to build around because you need to surround him with plus defenders at almost every position.

Draymond gets hurt because he isn't a guy you can give the ball to and say "get me a bucket." He's a GREAT cog in the system, but he can't be the system. However, his defensive ability puts him just ahead of Blake, who I think you CAN make the system. When he's not surrounded by dogshit guards and wings, he can still get you wins.

Finally, KAT. I really think there's a case to be made for four or five players to be in front of him (IT, Hayward, Love, Millsap... all have health concerns. Lillard, Kemba and Lowry come to mind). I'm very low on his defense and he's not a guy who creates for others. It's possible I'd rank Simmons ahead of him by the end of the year.

I think you're underrating Curry here. If building for a single year, I'd take Curry over Westbrook and Harden and possibly Durant. It's just so easy to build a team around him as he can play off the ball and on the ball. You can fit him in basically with anyone on offense and while scoring he can keep everyone involved. You can see how easy Durant fit in with the Warriors and I think OKC would be better with Curry (easier for him to play with George and Anthony)
 
I think you're underrating Curry here. If building for a single year, I'd take Curry over Westbrook and Harden and possibly Durant. It's just so easy to build a team around him as he can play off the ball and on the ball. You can fit him in basically with anyone on offense and while scoring he can keep everyone involved. You can see how easy Durant fit in with the Warriors and I think OKC would be better with Curry (easier for him to play with George and Anthony)

I might be, absolutely. I won't argue that. The problem is we've seen Russ and Harden carry teams with far less talent than Curry has won with. That very well could be coloring my opinion.
 
Jimmy Butler doesn't belong anywhere near the top-20 right now. Maybe that changes, but he's not been that great at all.
 
I might be, absolutely. I won't argue that. The problem is we've seen Russ and Harden carry teams with far less talent than Curry has won with. That very well could be coloring my opinion.

Curry is by far the best point guard IMO.

You can't trust Russ and Harden in the playoffs. I'd trust Curry, Irving, and CP3 easily over those two.
 
Gobert took his leap. He's one the best defensive players in the world.

He's having a bit of slump, but that's all it is.

He's still great defensively, I just thought his offensive game would take a step up.

I never expected he'd be KAT or Porzingis offensively.

If he'd just get into that 17-18 range, you could then say he's the best center in the game.

His defense and rebounding are far greater than anyone else at his position. He made a such a major impact last year because of it, despite his offensive skills not being remotely as good as those other guys.
 
I like this reasoning, and I'll go one further and add the caveat that it matters how easy it is to build around you. With that in mind...

9. Porzingis

I agree with everything you wrote.
And that fact you are the only person so far to put Kristaps in the top ten shows that you know what you are talking about :D
 
Do you guys think Curry is hitting the decline of his prime? It's crazy to me that there was that stretch of people talking about him surpassing LeBron as the best player in the game, LeBron declining, etc., and now LeBron is better than he was then and Curry is worse.
 
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I might be, absolutely. I won't argue that. The problem is we've seen Russ and Harden carry teams with far less talent than Curry has won with. That very well could be coloring my opinion.

Sure I get that: my counterpoint before the Warriors became the Warriors under Kerr: the Warriors were winning 47 games and 51 games with Curry the only guy with a PER above 20. This was when Green was barely getting any minutes and Thompson was young. Similar to the Celtics this year they had Iggy and Bogut providing defense and they made in the playoffs in a very tough Western Conferen
 
Do you guys think Curry is hitting the decline of his prime? It's crazy to me that there was that stretch of people talking about him surpassing LeBron as the best player in the game, LeBron declining, etc., and now LeBron is better than he was then and Curry is worse.

Curry is in his prime. He was never better than LeBron. He just had a better/historical season.

This is why I hate proclaiming guys are now better than such, and such, off one year.

That's too thin.

Same people that were saying IT was better than Kyrie now, because one season alone, when in their careers, it's not even close.

Just think you got to go off more than one year. You can say that player had a better season, just don't think it correlates to better player suddenly.

The media were dick sucking Curry way too much though, that didn't help.

Not sure fans bought it though. Curry is the media darling.

He is good though. I don't like him, but he's good.

Actually, this is Curry's second best season ever.

Like I said before, he was NEVER going to come close to that MVP 73 win season. It was an anomaly.

He's good, but not that good.
 
Do you guys think Curry is hitting the decline of his prime? It's crazy to me that there was that stretch of people talking about him surpassing LeBron as the best player in the game, LeBron declining, etc., and now LeBron is better than he was then and Curry is worse.

This is Curry's worst year shooting the three in his career. After tonight, he's 37.0% on the season.
 
The old .651 TS% on 17+ shots a game. The decline!

He's every bit as good as he was his 1st MVP season. So, no, he's not declining.
 
This is Curry's worst year shooting the three in his career. After tonight, he's 37.0% on the season.
Wow, damn, that's awful.
 
The old .651 TS% on 17+ shots a game. The decline!

He's every bit as good as he was his 1st MVP season. So, no, he's not declining.
He was 45.4% from 3 two years ago, 41.1% last year, and 37% this year. He's still a great player, and a lot of players would kill for his percentage, but his 3 point shooting has declined significantly.
 
So, I decided to listen to Bill Simmons Podcast (god help me), where they tried to rank the 20 best players in the league, and while I didn't agree with a lot of it, it did inspire me to try and do the same, which was really fucking difficult.

Basically, the only part of the list that I'm 100% confident in is the top 2, maybe top 3. every one from 4-8 I'm super shaky on, and no matter who I put at number 8 I end up feeling dirty.

Top 20 NBA players

1. LeBron James

2. Kevin Durant

3. James Harden

4. Steph Curry

5. Giannis Antetokuompo

6. Kawhi Leonard

7. Russell Westbrook

8. Anthony Davis

9. DeMarcus Cousins

10. Kyrie Irving

11. John Wall

12. Karl Anthony Towns

13. Kristaps Porzingis

14. Paul George

15. Jimmy Butler

16. Draymond Green

17. Marc Gasol

18. Joel Embiid

19. Chris Paul

20. Nikola Jokic

We had one of these last year and it sparked some interesting discussion, so have at it, RCF! Who are your top 20 players right now?

Your 2-4 are big pusses. Giannis is the second-best player in the league, and Bron's heir apparent.
 

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