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Ben

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LyXo

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Offense should be run through Z, first, always. Establish the big man. But this game, it was tough against Haywood. And Etan Thomas. Result? Nothing from Z, but nothing from those two guys either. His tiring of them prevented Haywood's occasional 16 points.

Either way, I think more high pick and rolls should be run for Z. Meaning Z should shoot more from 18 feet, I think that's his main strength. Bringing his defender out on the perimeter to open up the lane in future plays. We have Hughes to attack the basket and drop a pass to the guy in the middle. Have him hang out from 18 and LBJ on the arc on the other side so there's many pass options.
 

Cleveland56

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lyXo said:
Offense should be run through Z, first, always. Establish the big man. But this game, it was tough against Haywood. And Etan Thomas. Result? Nothing from Z, but nothing from those two guys either. His tiring of them prevented Haywood's occasional 16 points.

Either way, I think more high pick and rolls should be run for Z. Meaning Z should shoot more from 18 feet, I think that's his main strength. Bringing his defender out on the perimeter to open up the lane in future plays. We have Hughes to attack the basket and drop a pass to the guy in the middle. Have him hang out from 18 and LBJ on the arc on the other side so there's many pass options.

funny post in general. running the offense for Z 18 footers. And Etan is a stopper. I like when Z shoots the mid range shot, but that is not running the offense through him. With Hughes and LBJ driving to the hoop, it leaves easy shots open for Gooden and Z.
 

LyXo

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funny post in general. running the offense for Z 18 footers. And Etan is a stopper. I like when Z shoots the mid range shot, but that is not running the offense through him. With Hughes and LBJ driving to the hoop, it leaves easy shots open for Gooden and Z.
... I suppose you misunderstood my post.

Running the offense through Z... in my words... means running his plays. That includes throwing it to him in the post, setting him up again, letting him do his thing. Give me fakes, give me hook shots, layups, slams, anything. That also includes high pick and rolls. I did not say, by any means, that we should run the offense through Z solely through perimeter shots. I simply said that his shot should be utilized more to spread the floor.

Etan Thomas is by no means a stopper, but he gave Z trouble. He knocked the ball away a few times on feeds to Z, and didn't just allow him to waltz his way into the paint. If you play basketball, you might know that 1-2 failed possessions is tiring and frustrating, especially when things get changed up and you don't get another chance until the 3rd quarter.
 

Cleveland56

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I play basketball, pretty good too. A lot of people give Z trouble in the post. Im not here to bash Z, but the Wizards ran as many plays for Haywood as we did for Z - and Im fine with that.

Z in the post is not as big as an advantage as everyone thinks...He turns the ball over a lot and is a better shooter (and distributer) away from the hoop.

and Haywood scored 12 points (3 above his average) on 5-8 shooting...
 

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great to get home from my own ball and see this win...great work boys!!!
 

Karma

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Cleveland56 said:
I play basketball, pretty good too. A lot of people give Z trouble in the post. Im not here to bash Z, but the Wizards ran as many plays for Haywood as we did for Z - and Im fine with that.

Z in the post is not as big as an advantage as everyone thinks...He turns the ball over a lot and is a better shooter (and distributer) away from the hoop.

and Haywood scored 12 points (3 above his average) on 5-8 shooting...
Haywood scored 3 of his baskets with Z off the floor.
 

Cleveland56

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did you watch the replay? who cares? all im laughing about is that Z tired out Haywood and Etan. Did Etan get his points on Z?

do you guys feel you have to defend everything negative about Z? It's kind of silly. :rolleyes:
 

Karma

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I was just stating a fact that when Z sat, Haywood hit 3 of his 5 baskets. Thomas I'm not too sure, I do recall I shot on Z though.

I just defend Z when someone is having a shot at him unneccessarily. Some players are given no slack whilst others are on a free reign on this forum. Jamison scored at will at times, but no comment on the defense played on him! See what I mean.
 

Cleveland56

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Karma said:
I was just stating a fact that when Z sat, Haywood hit 3 of his 5 baskets. Thomas I'm not too sure, I do recall I shot on Z though.

I just defend Z when someone is having a shot at him unneccessarily. Some players are given no slack whilst others are on a free reign on this forum. Jamison scored at will at times, but no comment on the defense played on him! See what I mean.
I do. And i agree, maybe people are just over-protective of Z because he takes a lot of crap.
 

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I will admit I am very protective of criticism thrown at Ilgauskas. Its more the quantity which bothers me, as he has flaws, but people exaggerate.
 

LyXo

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It's not that I overtalk, overdefend Z, but I feel you're seriously underestimating his impact on the floor. And taking shots and plays away from him isn't quite the best way to go about it. Take Z out of the game, our offense will do fine for a while, but that means more drives for Hughes, more drives for LeBron. Which is good, but durability issues concern me. Hughes is a tough guy, I'll give him that, but if he's pounding it in as much as he does, he's bound to take a spill - that's why he's been injured the past few seasons.

When you have an offensively talented center like Z, you use him. You start with him on the inside and work your way out.

The specific case with Haywood/Thomas might be off. But in general, my theory should hold true: If Z gives them trouble with his offense, make them defend him, push him, tiring them down, then their energy on the offensive end will in turn be limited as well. On the other hand, if Z does nothing but stand there, they will also do nothing but stand there and have more energy to create on their offensive end.
 

PIP

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My problem with Z defesively is not really his man to man isolation defense. It's more of his rotations then anything else. The fact that he always steps out on the PG at the top of the screen gets me so pissed off I can't take it at times. He steps out just to stop the PG's progress, but is so late in getting back it's incredible.

Why teams don't just dump it down is beyond me ? There is an ocean size space between Z and his man on those plays because of his robotic like movement.

I think come playoff time when the game is strickly focused on halfcourt basketball is where teams will kill us on the inside and take advantage of that. Hell, it might come sooner once teams get a second look at us and notice how wide that space is.Teams can score probably 8 out 10 times when Z steps put on the PG..

Don't even get me started on pick and rolls..Especially high screens and cuts to the the basket...A traffic cone could play better D and move quicker on the high screen..I'm not knocking his ability to understand what he is doing, i'm knocking the fact he plays it like his shoes are stuck in gum :mad: Don't get pissed Z fans, I know, I know, not his fault, he's just Zyslowness Ilslownesssssssssssss

He plays pretty good straight up man to man "D"... There, I threw him a bone :chuckles:
 
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Karma

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LePip you dont think that Z stepping out every time might actually be the doing of our reputed defensive Coach Brown. Do you he does this to prevent a copy of last season where the point guard drove inside at will, ala San Antonio.

The fact is, Z is obviously playing to a defensive scheme that if the ball is dumped to his man, Gooden should rotate. Rotate, now there's a novel word for Drew. This is why I prefer a Marshall / Ilgauskas tandom. Two players who play team defense. Drew is doing well individually rather then in the system.
 

PIP

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Karma said:
LePip you dont think that Z stepping out every time might actually be the doing of our reputed defensive Coach Brown. Do you he does this to prevent a copy of last season where the point guard drove inside at will, ala San Antonio.

The fact is, Z is obviously playing to a defensive scheme that if the ball is dumped to his man, Gooden should rotate. Rotate, now there's a novel word for Drew. This is why I prefer a Marshall / Ilgauskas tandom. Two players who play team defense. Drew is doing well individually rather then in the system.
No, I actually don't think it's always the coaches call.. The reason I say that is due to the fact that several of them are on Cavs makes and the opposing team takes it right out of the basket and starts their offense...

It happens so fast that the Cavs can't even set up their "D".. In fact, i've seen the coach screaming at "Z" about it... And when Coach Brown moves towards Reghi and Williams at the scorers table you can at times on those plays hear him yell "GET BACK" too "Z"... If anybody pays attention tomorrow you will hear it... It happens at least 3 or 4 times a game (the yelling) "Z" does it around 8 or 9 times a game.. It's annoying as hell...
 

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