Week #11 - Lions @Browns 1pm

[CBBI]

Honestly it makes me think that Keenum is pretty fucking terrible if KS prefers to ride Baker into the ground

Keenum is absolutely washed. He played as well as he can play against Denver a few weeks ago and it wasn't good.

That said...

Keenum's best has to be better than Baker's worst, right?

Keenum's best is like a C- or D+. Not good at all, but not an F.

Baker's worst is an F and that's exactly what we've gotten out of him the last two weeks.

 

[buzzdog]

He is actually hurting the team though. Baker needs to have awareness of his own limits. Stefanski should definitely pull him, but to act like Baker needs to make decisions on his health as if he were some fringe NFL player is goddamn ridiculous.

No it is not ridiculous. Pretty much everyone expects players to play hurt. Players get heavy criticism if they sit out when they're capable of being on the field, period.
It is up to the HC, the staff, and the organization to make the ultimate decision when a hurt player is toughing it out. It is not up to the player to make that call.

 

[2 For The Brew]

The Browns just played a football game.

The quarterback didn't play well.

They almost certainly would have lost to 29 other NFL teams with the caliber of QB play they've gotten the last two weeks.

The Browns play their next two games against the team at the top of their division.

Respectfully, what the fuck else is there to talk about at 4:45pm on Sunday other than what we just watched? Which was mostly shit.

We won.

There‘s nothing else to talk about.
















See how dumb that second sentence is?

 

[DirtyDan]

No it is not ridiculous. Pretty much everyone expects players to play hurt. Players get heavy criticism if they sit out when they're capable of being on the field, period.
It is up to the HC, the staff, and the organization to make the ultimate decision when a hurt player is toughing it out. It is not up to the player to make that call.

Playing is hurt is fine when they are still able to at an adequate level.

Baker isn't doing that, he or Stefanski or both need to decide to shut it down. It's beyond stupid to play hurt when it's actively hurting the team. THE LITERAL OPPOSITE OF WHAT PLAYING HURT IS SUPPOSED TO ACCOMPLISH.

 

[buzzdog]

He should have been off since the Broncos game. We would still be 2-2 at minimum, and he would be getting healthy.

Now, he is more banged up, overcompensating, and is in his own head. Stefanski may not only be costing us this season, but Baker his career with this judgement.

This is truth.

 

[buzzdog]

Expectations matter. A lot.

If this team was projected to go 5-12 or something like that, I wouldn't be nearly as critical because my expectations would be where they should be.

As well as this team runs the football, if they had a QB that could make plays more consistently, they'd have a chance to really make a deep playoff run. Instead, they're likely going to miss out on the playoffs entirely.

This is a team capable of winning that simply isn't winning to the level of their ability. IMO the vast majority of that falls on their lack of QB production.

It's either Baker or Keenum.

Baker will drag his ass out on the field and he will truly believe he can get the job done if he's physically able to get out of bed. This is established fact.

I think we've been at the point where Keenum would give us a better chance to win as long as Mayfield is hobbled, he is unable to throw with accuracy, and he is spooked and afraid of contact.

It is Stefanski's job to recognize this and act on it. It is also Stefanski's job to see the bigger picture where if he would have sat Mayfield today then just maybe he'd be in better shape the following week.

Yes I am questioning the judgement of KS and by extension our whole management team, whomever should be involved in the highest level decisions regarding such matters.

Cincinnati was essentially false hope with Mayfield. If he could perform at that level week in and week out that would be a different matter. As soon as he comes out overshooting and just missing in general with his passes his ass should go to straight the bench. If he were healthy I'd say ride it out but he clearly is not healthy and it is affecting not only hos accuracy but all aspects of his game negatively.

 

[prf100]

Love his toughness, but Baker needs to sit down. Reminds of Favre’s one year with the Jets when his elbow was all messed up - refused to stop, could not throw the ball and looked like dog shit. Rested during the off-season, came back for the Vikings and had one of his best years.

Not saying Mayfield will magically come back better, but his toughness is only hurting the team right now

 

[buzzdog]

Playing is hurt is fine when they are still able to at an adequate level.

Baker isn't doing that, he or Stefanski or both need to decide to shut it down. It's beyond stupid to play hurt when it's actively hurting the team. THE LITERAL OPPOSITE OF WHAT PLAYING HURT IS SUPPOSED TO ACCOMPLISH.

I'm saying this is on KS and the organization. It is not on Mayfield. If he was able to get on the field but he personally chose to sit out millions of fans would be calling him a pussy. He will always want to play as long as he is able to roll out of bed, and that's what is expected of players whether you like it or not.

Head coaches and GMs make these decisions when there is a gray area like we have, not players.

 

[bob2the2nd]

I'm saying this is on KS and the organization. It is not on Mayfield. If he was able to get on the field but he personally chose sat out millions of fans would be calling him a pussy. He will always want to play as long as he is able to roll out of bed, and that's what is expected of players whether you like it or not.

Head coaches and GMs make these decisions when there is a gray area like we have, not players.

I don't get why anyone on this board is having issues understanding this ridiculously simple concept after years of Kevin Love. Baker wants to play regardless of what is going on, that is absolutely a trait that we should all value. However at some point KS needs to step in and tell Baker he needs to heal

 

[DirtyDan]

I don't get why anyone on this board is having issues understanding this ridiculously simple concept after years of Kevin Love. Baker wants to play regardless of what is going on, that is absolutely a trait that we should all value. However at some point KS needs to step in and tell Baker he needs to heal

What the fuck does Kevin Love have to do with this? You think I actually want to see Kevin Love tough out injuries? Can barely play well when healthy.

Look, I acknowledge and accept the respect part of this. That playing through injuries is an admirable trait. Players should still have the autonomy to decide on playing when injured. Baker has the power to say he's good to go and under these conditions, should have the power to say he's not able to. No one is going to look down on him or respect him less when he's limping and has a torn labrum.

Just saying, whether it's Stefanski or Baker that makes the decision for him to sit, everyone knows it's the right decision. He's gonna fuck around and get his season ended.

 

[buzzdog]

What the fuck does Kevin Love have to do with this? You think I actually want to see Kevin Love tough out injuries? Can barely play well when healthy.

Look, I acknowledge and accept the respect part of this. That playing through injuries is an admirable trait. Players should still have the autonomy to decide on playing when injured. Baker has the power to say he's good to go and under these conditions, should have the power to say he's not able to. No one is going to look down on him or respect him less when he's limping and has a torn labrum.

Just saying, whether it's Stefanski or Baker that makes the decision for him to sit, everyone knows it's the right decision. He's gonna fuck around and get his season ended.

I agree with everything you said, except this decision is on Kevin, not for both to make. There needs to be an adult in the building and Baker cannot be objective about this. It's management's job, period.

 

[DirtyDan]

I agree with everything you said, except this decision is on Kevin, not for both to make. There needs to be an adult in the building and Baker cannot be objective about this. It's management's job, period.

I don't think Kevin does it. He let Wills play injured and bad for weeks. Baker is now on his second week with a leg injury with two bad performances.

 

[2 For The Brew]

What the fuck does Kevin Love have to do with this? You think I actually want to see Kevin Love tough out injuries? Can barely play well when healthy.

Look, I acknowledge and accept the respect part of this. That playing through injuries is an admirable trait. Players should still have the autonomy to decide on playing when injured. Baker has the power to say he's good to go and under these conditions, should have the power to say he's not able to. No one is going to look down on him or respect him less when he's limping and has a torn labrum.

Just saying, whether it's Stefanski or Baker that makes the decision for him to sit, everyone knows it's the right decision. He's gonna fuck around and get his season ended.

No, everyone doesn’t know it’s the right decision. Clearly Stefanski doesn’t agree, and he’s the one who gets to make the decision. So it’s not as obvious as you think it is.

Baker was medically cleared to play, therefore he’s good to go. If his performance is affected by injury then it’s Stefanski’s prerogative to replace him with Case if he thinks that’s a better option.

I also don’t understand why any player would ask to stop playing because they might get injured and would have to stop playing. That doesn’t make any sense.

If Baker is medically cleared to play then he’s the starting and finishing QB of the Cleveland Browns unless Stefanski decides otherwise, no matter how much the fans are upset because Baker’s play cost us yet another game. The fact that we won the game today doesn’t help the “bench Baker” case. If he’s healthy, he’s starting against the Ravens.

 

[buzzdog]

I don't think Kevin does it. He let Wills play injured and bad for weeks. Baker is now on his second week with a leg injury with two bad performances.

Probably true. It's unfortunate that KS doesn't seem to take injury into account when evaluating actual performance ramifications in live game situations.

I would have to say it could be a blind spot in his judgement. Hopefully he learns and improves.