Week 15: Bengals (8-4) @ Browns (7-6) | 1:00 p.m. | FOX

[Mr. Orange]

Give him three more games. See how he does. Even if you don't like him based on his college career, there is nothing you can do about it right now. He is starting the last three games. Deal with it. If you are a Browns fan, pull for him to win and you can bitch and moan about a change after the season is over. He was our first round pick...he is going to get a look.

Also...I am by no means a Manziel fan. But I'll at least give him his shot since we are out of the playoffs.

 

[spydy13]

I disagree. This team has enough talent to compete with a competent QB. We saw that when we were healthy and Hoyer was playing well. Get Mack back and it's a totally different line. Don't have your entire d line get hurt and maybe you can stop the run.

I think the 7 wins are deceiving people. Other than Pittsburgh, we have played the easiest schedule in the league. In any other year this is a 4-5 win team.

Yes, having Mack back will help, so will getting the defense healthy again, but if we had depth, those injuries wouldn't be so glaring.

 

[Shakalu M.D.]

I think the 7 wins are deceiving people. Other than Pittsburgh, we have played the easiest schedule in the league. In any other year this is a 4-5 win team.

Yes, having Mack back will help, so will getting the defense healthy again, but if we had depth, those injuries wouldn't be so glaring.

And you can get depth with mid round and late round picks or in FA. You don't need firsts or seconds for that, you use those picks to find game changers.

As for depth, there is no way you can have enough depth to replace 3 starters on your line. There is no backup who will be able to replace arguably the best center in football.

Yes they played an easy schedule, but with a competent QB they beat the colts. They had quality wins over teams like the Bengals and Pit and just narrowly lost to Bal.

 

[spydy13]

And you can get depth with mid round and late round picks or in FA. You don't need firsts or seconds for that, you use those picks to find game changers.

As for depth, there is no way you can have enough depth to replace 3 starters on your line. There is no backup who will be able to replace arguably the best center in football.

Yes they played an easy schedule, but with a competent QB they beat the colts. They had quality wins over teams like the Bengals and Pit and just narrowly lost to Bal.

I wouldn't expect someone to replace Mack's replacement, but we aren't even getting close. And I don't care what anyone tells me or what the metrics say, Greco and Schwartz are backups.

You are right though that we don't need to draft depth in the first, but we could use another impact D-lineman, Pass rusher, receiver, and I argue an offensive lineman, so I'd rather cross two off of that list than roll those picks and some others into getting a QB that will still suffer from poor play around him.

 

[mixman]

So you think we should have let Hoyer keep playing for 2-3 seasons?

We should have let Anderson keep being the starter?

Your black and white analysis is easy to lean back on, but that is just not how sports work.

Every individual should be evaluated. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see why we would waste any more time on this guy. My prediction is that he would bring us down time and time again. The only thing we would be wasting is the other talented players on our team who we have signed.

How do you get from me saying 1 game is not enough to giving Hoyer or Anderson more time when they each got at least a season to show themselves? Obviously this game will factor into Johnny's resume but you need a sample size bigger than 1 to go off of.

 

[gijimbo]

How do you get from me saying 1 game is not enough to giving Hoyer or Anderson more time when they each got at least a season to show themselves? Obviously this game will factor into Johnny's resume but you need a sample size bigger than 1 to go off of.

My point is that sample size shouldn't matter. At some varying point you should just know if a player has a chance to be a top-15 type starting QB in the NFL.

Manziel does NOT have the tools. Same as the other 20 past browns QB starters since '99.

Do you really want to waste more time on this kid? Are you going to tell me that you think he can just magically become the answer?

 

[AZ_]

My point is that sample size shouldn't matter. At some varying point you should just know if a player has a chance to be a top-15 type starting QB in the NFL.

Manziel does NOT have the tools. Same as the other 20 past browns QB starters since '99.

Do you really want to waste more time on this kid? Are you going to tell me that you think he can just magically become the answer?

Regardless of his flaws, he is a redshirt sophomore entrant into the draft that was younger than every QB that started in the Big10 and SEC title games.

So yea, he can absolutely get better.

 

[gijimbo]

Regardless of his flaws, he is a redshirt sophomore entrant into the draft that was younger than every QB that started in the Big10 and SEC title games.

So yea, he can absolutely get better.

I take back everything I posted!

QB Whisperer thinks that he can get better!

AZ_, you said a lot without saying anything there. What do you mean? I agree he can get better. I think almost anyone could do better than what Manziel did today.

So should we waste next season on this QB?

 

[mixman]

My point is that sample size shouldn't matter. At some varying point you should just know if a player has a chance to be a top-15 type starting QB in the NFL.

Manziel does NOT have the tools. Same as the other 20 past browns QB starters since '99.

Do you really want to waste more time on this kid? Are you going to tell me that you think he can just magically become the answer?

Ok, so everyone gets one game now and if they don't perform they are cut. Guess we should of ditched Haden and Skrine after their rookie years too. Look, I understand that you never would of taken Manziel, and I can definitely understand that point of view. But now that he is here, it is pointless to judge his chances as an NFL player after one game. Doing so would only hurt the Browns.

 

[gijimbo]

Ok, so everyone gets one game now and if they don't perform they are cut. Guess we should of ditched Haden and Skrine after their rookie years too. Look, I understand that you never would of taken Manziel, and I can definitely understand that point of view. But now that he is here, it is pointless to judge his chances as an NFL player after one game. Doing so would only hurt the Browns.

Dude, you really don't understand my point of view.

I was a huge Manziel supporter before today, mainly, because he is a Cleveland Brown.

If they decide to stick w him, I will support him. I love the Browns, always have and always will.

What I saw today was much worse than almost any rookie making their first NFL start though. I would love to be wrong on this. But, I am starting to side with those who say Manziel has no place in this league.

 

[gijimbo]

Ok, so everyone gets one game now and if they don't perform they are cut. Guess we should of ditched Haden and Skrine after their rookie years too. Look, I understand that you never would of taken Manziel, and I can definitely understand that point of view. But now that he is here, it is pointless to judge his chances as an NFL player after one game. Doing so would only hurt the Browns.

I hate to be that guy, but I will respect your posts more if you say should HAVE instead of should of.

 

[AZ_]

I take back everything I posted!

QB Whisperer thinks that he can get better!

AZ_, you said a lot without saying anything there. What do you mean? I agree he can get better. I think almost anyone could do better than what Manziel did today.

So should we waste next season on this QB?

They committed to giving him a chance the day they drafted him, regardless of my thoughts on what he is or will become, they have to give him a chance to develop.

They have the coaching staff capable of doing it, too.

 

[mixman]

Dude, you really don't understand my point of view.

I was a huge Manziel supporter before today, mainly, because he is a Cleveland Brown.

If they decide to stick w him, I will support him. I love the Browns, always have and always will.

What I saw today was much worse than almost any rookie making their first NFL start though. I would love to be wrong on this. But, I am starting to side with those who say Manziel has no place in this league.

Well, all I am saying is that you need a little more than one game to know for certain.

I hate to be that guy, but I will respect your posts more if you say should HAVE instead of should of.

Then don't be that guy.

 

[gijimbo]

Well, all I am saying is that you need a little more than one game to know for certain.



Then don't be that guy.

I am not giving up on him. I hope, deep down in my heart, that he can succeed.

I just don't think that he will.

Sorry for being that guy. I am drunk, sad, and just not sure how to feel after this game.

I knew what you meant, my apologies.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I really thought fans would be able to understand that Johnny was a rookie and was going to play like one, but @Randolphkeys nailed it that everyone would jump all over a bad performance.

I have no idea if people want to hear from me... but what the hell..

I took my son and wife to Sausalito and had a lovely crab roll for lunch. There was zero doubt in my mind that this game was going to be ugly. Did I think it was going to be as ugly as this? Yeah, probably. I think the hot start to this season had a lot of offensive skill position players over-achieving. I think its a lot harder to supersede your ability when the team is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs and a rookie QB everyone knows isn't ready has taken over at quarterback. I'd say its a special breed of player who can outwork a team that is still fighting for a playoff spot in that situation. This is what it looks like when the rookie QB gets development games, gentlemen.

So decide what you want to do, Browns. This guy was a long-term project when you drafted him. Are you going to put in the time to develop him... knowing he might not pan out?

Do you draft another guy like Manziel after the top five? Every QB after the top two will also need to be developed. Do you sell the farm for Winston or Mariota? Do you HAVE the assets for Winston or Mariota? At that point, you still have a below average group of receivers and you blew through assets for several future drafts.

So, I think the best bet for this franchise is to play the season out with Johnny and try to sign a Fitzpatrick level veteran for next year, hopefully Manziel will figure things out over the summer. And for the love of GOD, please invest in some offensive playmakers. Make life for these QBs a little easier.

Let me know when the PFF stats come out....