Week #5 - Baker Bounce Back @ Bolts

[Coyote]

Just a very frustrating loss. I know I've been hard on Kevin Stefanski here. I love so much about the guy. But there's nothing that pisses me off more than 1) going into prevent defenses instead of continuing to attack, and by doing so letting teams back into games, and 2) doing the equivalent on offense, going into a shell with super conservative play calling, and failing to execute drives in crunch time that keep a potent opposing offense off the field.

Stefanski is egregiously guilty of #2.

This is the first game I've been significantly disappointed by his playcalling--by which I mean over an extended period of time in the game.

But maybe, because he is so good, we forget he's a second-year head coach.

 

[DJTJ]

This is the first game I've been significantly disappointed by his playcalling--by which I mean over an extended period of time in the game.

But maybe, because he is so good, we forget he's a second-year head coach.

Yep.

And it’s routine. Dallas last year, Tennessee. The second Baltimore game. And then KC/LA.

He shows moments of brilliance and then let’s off the gas because he’s afraid to crush the throat.

 

[Coyote]

Yep.

And it’s routine. Dallas last year, Tennessee. The second Baltimore game. And then KC/LA.

He shows moments of brilliance and then let’s off the gas because he’s afraid to crush the throat.

It is a trend. Last season I was probably more distracted by the defense sucking.

 

[Cassity14]

The All-22 says different IMO. Not saying these guys are getting wide open on every play, but Baker has always struggled with progressions.

He's always been a guy who struggles with dropping his eyes against pressure too, which certainly doesn't help his ability to see guys come open.

I trust your eyes, and have learned a lot by reading your posts as well as looking into sources you've posted here in the past.

I am eagerly waiting to see if Baker routinely missed quality opportunities today. Please post if/when you come to a conclusion on that!

 

[DJTJ]

The All-22 says different IMO. Not saying these guys are getting wide open on every play, but Baker has always struggled with progressions.

He's always been a guy who struggles with dropping his eyes against pressure too, which certainly doesn't help his ability to see guys come open.

Without knowing the play book, we can’t know what the order of progressions is.

Agree that under pressure he locks on his current read.

 

[Lee]

For the don’t trust Baker crowd.

Stefanski presser said that he played conservative because he had back up tackles and didn’t want anything bad to happen.

You either trust his words or you don’t.

Its actually what i pointed out, we actually were missing our 2 starting tackles AND the backup in Hubbard. We had our 3rd and 4 stringers in against a good d-line, Stefanski made the right call. We stopped them on fourth downs if not for the 5 team parlay of the ref who called PI against us.

 

[CBBI]

Yep.

And it’s routine. Dallas last year, Tennessee. The second Baltimore game. And then KC/LA.

He shows moments of brilliance and then let’s off the gas because he’s afraid to crush the throat.

Not exactly.

Stefanski put the football in Baker's hands literally last week four times with less than 5 minutes to play in an effort to "crush the throat" of Minnesota and Baker failed. Four incomplete passes.

Hell, in Week 1 at Kansas City in the 4th quarter and the Browns holding a 2 point lead, Stefanski called 3 pass plays in a row and the result was sack, completion for 4, incomplete pass. And at the time the Browns were averaging over 6 yards per carry.

He's put his faith in Mayfield multiple times already this year and Mayfield has not come through.

 

[DJTJ]

Not exactly.

Stefanski put the football in Baker's hands literally last week four times with less than 5 minutes to play in an effort to "crush the throat" of Minnesota and Baker failed. Four incomplete passes.

Hell, in Week 1 at Kansas City in the 4th quarter and the Browns holding a 2 point lead, Stefanski called 3 pass plays in a row and the result was sack, completion for 4, incomplete pass. And at the time the Browns were averaging over 6 yards per carry.

He's put his faith in Mayfield multiple times already this year and Mayfield has not come through.

he was horrible in Minn, I concede.

But KC- if my memory is right, 1st and 10 they ran empty set, and Jones murdered Conklin.

They threw short in an attempt to not end up with a 3rd and 16. And on third down, Baker missed Njoku. On third and 12. Hardly easy to paint it, after a drive killer, that Baker was in a position to succeed. What’s the league average for 3rd and 12, under 10%? C’mon, man.

 

[buzzdog]

Not exactly.

Stefanski put the football in Baker's hands literally last week four times with less than 5 minutes to play in an effort to "crush the throat" of Minnesota and Baker failed. Four incomplete passes.

Hell, in Week 1 at Kansas City in the 4th quarter and the Browns holding a 2 point lead, Stefanski called 3 pass plays in a row and the result was sack, completion for 4, incomplete pass. And at the time the Browns were averaging over 6 yards per carry.

He's put his faith in Mayfield multiple times already this year and Mayfield has not come through.

I'll give you last week, Mayfield totally sucked and I said as much after that game.

Today, I wouldn't say that.

 

[CBBI]

he was horrible in Minn, I concede.

But KC- if my memory is right, 1st and 10 they ran empty set, and Jones murdered Conklin.

They threw short in an attempt to not end up with a 3rd and 16. And on third down, Baker missed Njoku. On third and 12. Hardly easy to paint it, after a drive killer, that Baker was in a position to succeed. What’s the league average for 3rd and 12, under 10%? C’mon, man.

The point is that they called 3 pass plays in a row with the lead in the 4th quarter earlier this year.

I was merely pushing back against this idea that Stefanski always goes into a shell and shits himself when the Browns have the lead in the 4th quarter because that isn't the case.

The Browns tried to ice the game with the pass at KC. They tried to ice the game with the pass at Minnesota.

Hell, considering they passed on 2nd and 10 today, they at least took one shot at icing the game with the pass today too.

The third down call was particularly bad and the explanation was worse, but Stefanski has put the ball in Baker's hands multiple times this year in an effort to put the game away.

 

[CBBI]

Not saying that QBR is a perfect stat, but...

Mayfield: 53.0
Herbert: 84.8

Herbert was clearly the better QB today and it wasn't even close despite their counting stats being nearly identical.

 

[DJTJ]

The point is that they called 3 pass plays in a row with the lead in the 4th quarter earlier this year.

I was merely pushing back against this idea that Stefanski always goes into a shell and shits himself when the Browns have the lead in the 4th quarter because that isn't the case.

The Browns tried to ice the game with the pass at KC. They tried to ice the game with the pass at Minnesota.

Hell, considering they passed on 2nd and 10 today, they at least took one shot at icing the game with the pass today too.

The third down call was particularly bad and the explanation was worse, but Stefanski has put the ball in Baker's hands multiple times this year in an effort to put the game away.

But, again, out of necessity, does Baker not NEED to throw in KC on 2nd and third? On second today?

There’s a difference between stepping on the throat, and being conservative.

Realistically, coming out on that drive, Kevin Stefanski should have treated it like any other drive. And he didn’t. That was the problem in KC.

When the team needs a first down to basically lock a win, hear me out, open play book? Call your best plays? Stefanski just doesn’t. He plays not to have a catastrophic play

 

[Mr. Orange]

The drop by Beckham was absolutely brutal. This team is markedly better if they just cut his overpaid ass. I'm really sick of watching him over the past 3 seasons.

This has no effect on the outcome as LA went 3 and out and we scored a TD from good field position.

 

[CBBI]

But, again, out of necessity, does Baker not NEED to throw in KC on 2nd and third? On second today?

There’s a difference between stepping on the throat, and being conservative.

Realistically, coming out on that drive, Kevin Stefanski should have treated it like any other drive. And he didn’t. That was the problem in KC.

When the team needs a first down to basically lock a win, hear me out, open play book? Call your best plays? Stefanski just doesn’t. He plays not to have a catastrophic play

I don't really think the Browns did anything out of the ordinary on the first two plays of that 3 and out drive.

Coming into that drive they had 34 carries for 229 yards, 6.7 yards a pop. So I had no issue running on first down in that spot given the success they had previously. They ran on 1st down four other times tonight, so it wasn't out of the ordinary. It got stuffed. Things happen.

When that play only gained one, I was 100% in favor of passing on 2nd down because the conversion was far more important than making the Chargers use their timeouts.

The Browns faced 2nd and long eight times earlier in the game and called a pass play in every single instance. No issue with the pass call there.

The only truly egregiously bad call was running on 3rd down IMO. You have to throw in that spot no matter what.

 

[DJTJ]

Not saying that QBR is a perfect stat, but...

Mayfield: 53.0
Herbert: 84.8

Herbert was clearly the better QB today and it wasn't even close despite their counting stats being nearly identical.

I don’t think anyone here has stated that Baker was better?

But, uh… same TDs (instead of runs), Baker is 80+. EPA is so heavily influenced that TDs skew it.